Post by rsivertsen on Oct 22, 2009 9:30:57 GMT -10
This can be a sticky and thorny matter, to bring plants into a new area where it doesn't already exist. It seems that the only politically correct thing to do is to store their gene pool in TC somewhere. If you guys are going to relocate some plants, it's best if it's done on private property, this way they can be regarded as a "farmed crop". Funny how some things seem to escape scrutiny and gain social acceptance if it's called something else! but that's another one of my rants (don't get me started!) Make sure you guys keep careful records too; if these new populations begin to evolve on their own, into something different (which could very well happen within a few generations due to some subtle environmental selection factor that was overlooked initially), we need to know exactly what plants came from where, and when.
btw, I seriously doubt that N. mirabilis would survive anywhere in Florida, not even in the great Everglades swamps; it's just too cold during the winter for any lowland Nepenthes, and the summers are too hot for any highland species; still an intriguing thought to have Nepenthes naturalized in the USA!
There are however, no shortage of examples of escapee tropical plants that are now part of the landscape that originally came in as houseplants; some are invasive and cause problems with waterways and threaten other native plants. There are already far more VFTs in Florida than in ALL of both North (and South) Carolina combined, especially near Wilmington, but that's another matter. - Rich
Last Edit: Oct 22, 2009 11:03:27 GMT -10 by rsivertsen
I'm not suffering from insanity! I'm rather enjoying it, actually!
Bravo to Cello, Shawn and Trong for getting the ball rolling. This is a very good news.
About the nep colony / refuge, how much human intervention are required to maintain it? Is it like a natural habitat that you just spread the seeds or plant the seedlings and let mother nature handle the rest? Perhaps ppl that are responsible will drop by from time to time to check things out?
I believe this is where we (Malaysian and others) I can learn what the Thais are doing to conserve their nep so if we wanted to do this, we at least know what's required and what's to be expected to manage and complete it successfully.
Last Edit: Oct 22, 2009 19:09:05 GMT -10 by nepnut
Post by Marcello Catalano on Oct 23, 2009 6:13:41 GMT -10
Private proverties are not even sure enough We're thinking about LOST places that are already included in national parks. There's plenty of them in Thailand. I'm quite obsessed by labelling, cataloguing and recording, hopefully my eco-friends will be the same We'll make sure that the secondary colony has some kind of stone or metal sign, maybe just with a number or with a longer explanation. Rob, a colony that depends on 3 people to survive is useless; we plan to find the right place and introduce small, selected plants, maybe 50-100-200, not sure. Then we'll check for a few years and see if they survive - but of course without any other kind of intervent by our side. If they don't, we'll have to choose another place. I know of a colony of 10-20 plants of D. capensis introduced near a small stream in Australia (that was a huge risk!) 30 years ago. In 30 years, if you go there, you can still see the same 10-20 plants, maybe some new, some old. No comment!
Private proverties are not even sure enough We're thinking about LOST places that are already included in national parks. There's plenty of them in Thailand.
You might want to contact the National Parks authorities there in T'land before you start this venture; they may have some policy about introducing plants into these protected forests that are not originally part of that forest, and document their permissions if its granted. You may have to generate a proposal that needs to be voted upon by these authorities as well. Just a thought. - Rich
I'm not suffering from insanity! I'm rather enjoying it, actually!
Post by rainforest on Oct 25, 2009 9:08:09 GMT -10
Seed grown vs tc. First of all Francois, do these people who are having difficulties with their lowii ever fertilize on a regular basis? Probably not. Any species just left up to capturing their own food will struggle to reach maturity. I am referring to plants that are grown in the optimal culture, not struggling on trying to capture or be fed insects in a closed cultivation method. Or even trying to secure dung as their means of nutrients in a closed cultivation environment. I would not want the nepenthes species in peril to be represented by the few tc retards that we already have. TC is only functional in making extended profits for these growers, it has very little to offer in the way of species preservation. We have seen N. clipeata, N. macrophylla, N. inermis, and many others only represented by tc clones and these have not helped bring these back to sustainable species repopulation other than the negative effects of tc for profit gains ONLY! Many of the new collected species are all following this doomed pathway to extinction by having tc plants for sale. I will say now and again that we need more seed originals than tc plants for distribution. A means which all growers should be more actively in. Not just wild collected seeds for seed originals but also propagative materials from stock plants in captivity. And these would not breed into infertility or retarded due to "inbreeding" among themselves. The sterility of S. flava is baed on inbreeding races, not S. flava from different regions or races. This is why we need to get as many seed original plants as possible so we don't end up with just a hand full of races of species already in tc. If we all just stay away from tc clones and ONLY want seed originals, this would lead the trend for growers to just make more seed originals. BE could have made ten thousand seed originals of the black truncata, but made just a modest amount then to be sold as tc plants afterwards for a lifetime of "inbred" genes creating mutations and sports through tc propagation. Is this what we want again? They sold out of the original seed plants of the black truncata, they could have had a major sell out of seedlings of the pure form (still disbelieving until I see it) if they wanted to. But to control the market with a few seed originals and replenish the remainder with tc clones is the way they do their biz. History repeats itself and with these black truncatas they will repeat themselves again!
The idea of conservation is not to replenish tc clones back to its original habitat, but rather with seed originals with as much genetic diversity as possible. Having even a hundred plants of just three clones is worthless for repopulating the species yet alone even for hobbyists to sustain them in captivity. Yet this is the idea that manifests itself to hobbyists to own a real species is to own a tc clone. This is just simply untrue. This is why scientists who can clone even animals refuse to clone any wildlife to act as species replenishment.
Start with the best that a species can offer, get ONLY seed original material and insist that everyone growing these know this that you will not buy a tc clone no matter what it is. BOYCOTT TC PLANTS!
Post by shawnintland on Mar 23, 2011 14:47:02 GMT -10
This to inform any who have not seen it already, The Ark of Life website is up and running! ( arkoflife.net )
This remarkable project founded by Stewart McPherson with the cooperation of Hortus Botanicus Leiden and the International Carnivorous Plant Society aims to "work to assemble and organize permanent collections of imperiled plants and animals in partnership with botanic gardens and zoos across the world."
Please take a few moments (at least!) to read through the website and give your support to this momentous, groundbreaking work!
Best wishes to all involved! May your dreams come true and may this project have a long and successful history! ~Shawn