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Post by dvg on Mar 10, 2010 9:17:18 GMT -10
Maybe N. rajah's common title as the 'King of Nepenthes' needs to be rethought a little...pondered perhaps. And what better place to do some deep thinking than on the ehhhhhem...throne. That's right, maybe it could be renamed the 'Royal Crapper'. Or even the 'Loo-King'...Loo-King for shrew poo that is. You decide: news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8552000/8552157.stm
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Post by jgriffin on Mar 10, 2010 9:25:21 GMT -10
Whoah, if Charles believes it....
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Post by dvg on Mar 10, 2010 10:57:45 GMT -10
The botanists might just have to create three classes of Nepenthes now: The insectivores...most Nepenthes that primarily capture insects would fall into this category. The herbivores...N. ampullaria and others that rely on falling leaves and other plant detritus for their chief sustenance. The crapivores...To which N. rajah would now belong. A sad day indeed for the once proud King, now forced to abdicate it's former throne, and assume it's new throne position as King of the Crapivores. ;D
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Post by rainforest on Mar 10, 2010 13:17:57 GMT -10
Oddly, accounts of a rat eating CP must have been fabricated then. Or is this a misleading observation. For rajah to be a poo receptacle it would need to be woody like N. lowii and have similar qualities for poo capture.
Has anyone seen rajah in the flesh to observe what was in the pitcher contents. M
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amori
Urceolatae
Posts: 21
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Post by amori on Mar 10, 2010 21:17:33 GMT -10
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Post by leilani on Mar 10, 2010 23:37:15 GMT -10
From "King of the Beasts" to ........... "Poo eating vegetable"! The whole "hunting" metaphor is blown! Are fecal dropping considered animal, mineral or vegetable? The Rajah has no clothes and the romantic gives way to the banal! The trouble is ...... who wants a naked Rajah? Take away the Jewels and the Robes and ........ The "image" damage is substantial and if "the Raj" was up for re-election his campaign staff might be bailing out about now ...... "We've gotta spin this!" "N. rajah wants to be crapped on?" ................... "That will never work!" "How about we play up the "GREEN" aspects of this situation?" ;D The real fun is to follow ...... when we take this opportunity to explain as many plant features as we possibly can as having evolved to this "purpose".
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Post by dvg on Mar 11, 2010 4:57:15 GMT -10
The real fun is to follow ...... when we take this opportunity to explain as many plant features as we possibly can as having evolved to this "purpose". Comparing the rajah to our modern water closet is inevitable. I can see it going something like this. Let's see, We have a lid...check We have a toilet seat/peristome...check We have a bowl/pitcher...check We have fluid in the bowl...check But there doesn't seem to be anyway to flush this rajah though....hmmm...must be some sort of chemical toilet...check ;D
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Post by rainforest on Mar 11, 2010 7:47:48 GMT -10
Now would this apply to other large pitchers too?
What about N. merriilliana, what do they supposedly feast on?
And the "Flesh Eating" N. attenboroughii? Perhaps not a flesh eater?
M
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Post by dvg on Mar 11, 2010 8:01:43 GMT -10
Now would this apply to other large pitchers too? What about N. merriilliana, what do they supposedly feast on? And the "Flesh Eating" N. attenboroughii? Perhaps not a flesh eater? M All good and valid questions, no doubt. I find it very amusing that ideas that were considered to be solidly based on science 'fact' just a week ago, are now suddenly shifting sands beneath our feet, and will now have to be seriously questioned and reconsidered. Always an interesting time when we are forced to restructure our beliefs.
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Post by walterg on Mar 11, 2010 8:43:46 GMT -10
Cool. Now we can all make our own plant food.
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Post by jgriffin on Mar 11, 2010 11:32:16 GMT -10
LOL. Cool. Now we can all make our own plant food.
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Post by rainforest on Mar 12, 2010 10:12:44 GMT -10
So that would mean a pitcher the size of a toilet then.
M
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Post by agustinfranco on Mar 13, 2010 14:04:53 GMT -10
I posted this elsewhere, but i would like to post it here too.
Hi all:
I am not totally convinced that the shrew's faeces is the reason why N rajah, macrophylla, and lowii have large pitchers. There is no doubt, that these pitchers do feed on faeces, but faeces is not the only type of diet these plants consume. At the Nepenthes summit, Kuching 2007: Ulrika Bauer proved without doubt that the peristome of Nepenthes have a unique surface that when wet, insects slip into the pitcher.
That trait is still present in at least N. rajah and N .lowii lowers. Also it must be very uncomfortable for any tree shrew to sit on a N. macrophylla peristome...due to obvious reasons. If i am not believed, just look inside at Sam's macrophylla pitcher. There is not a single answer to this question. Perhaps, the pitchers evolved to accomodate tree shrews amongst other modifications to maximise the chances of trapping nutrients, but we must be wary of saying that tree shrews are the only factor behind N. rajah pitcher evolution.
Gus
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Post by agustinfranco on Mar 13, 2010 14:12:25 GMT -10
Furthermore:
i saw the links for the short films; saddly enough, i did not manage to see any poo falling into the rajah's trap.
Gus.
P.S i believe it can happen as a shrew falling into the trap itself. No events are absolute, again they are all relative.
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Post by dvg on Mar 13, 2010 14:34:26 GMT -10
Gus, if you are correct in your argument that shrew faeces collection is not the Number One reason for these large pitcher dimensions, we are still left with enough compelling evidence that it is, at least indeed, Number Two.
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