|
Post by nolpenthes on Oct 24, 2010 10:07:21 GMT -10
Like has been mentioned I feel more focus needs to be put on the benefit these marvelous plants can bring to your client, as opposed to ALLLL of the inherent issues that may occur during ownership. If you are selling a car does the salesman put emphasis on the fact that the car will eventually run out of fuel, or will need to have the tires changed? Better yet that more people die in car accidents than in airplane crashes? I think not... Even though these are all facts in relation to car ownership, it would be ludicrous to mention them during the sale. Whatever your approach let it be a great gift for the friend/family member that has everything or a wild new hobby. Success on any final sale is generally dictated by your enthusiasm, paired with the information you provide to the potential grower/customer. Of course there are hundreds of do's / don'ts in respects to these plants, like any other. Countless schools of thought regarding feeding, substrate, lighting the list goes on. If you were to inundate your customer with all of this information at once, I'm sure I could predict the result... A intimidated person, male or female and loss of sale. Try not to focus on why these plants haven't had the same success as Orchids. Exhausting hours of time researching the origins and stigma of their 'inferiority' in sales is pointless. Focusing more on how to improve the current marketplace by not even laying mention of the past faults/folly's, may be a start. I feel all it could take is some 'viral' enthusiasm and a little less focus on the 'con's' of these plants, you may see an eventual shift in the market place. ;D ~nol
|
|
|
Post by philgreen on Oct 24, 2010 10:17:06 GMT -10
Even to the point where the mods at the time removed the thread because of my soap box exclamations M I think this is probably more to the point - it wasn't the message, but the messenger. I've been a member 4 years - so yeh, probably since you left. But basically you are regurgitating old beliefs and claiming them to be current thinking - OH, isn't that what you attacked Stewart for! Perhaps you should check on the current thinking, from people who actually use these forums before making these claims 'People in glass houses .....'.
|
|
|
Post by peterhewitt on Oct 24, 2010 22:32:32 GMT -10
I have found information on Nepenthes growing to be fairly plentiful and pretty accurate too. As long as you factor in, that there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat. Few people go looking for books these days, when wanting information on a subject, the first stop is the internet. I have only been growing Neps for 3 years and there has been a progression to my growing knowledge. Most information i have gathered, has Fertilizing Nepenthes as a safe and effective practice. Nepenthes were never as popular as Orchids, not before WW2, nor after. Their must be a reason for this, and a lack of information hardly seems the likely culprit. Regardless if we like it or not, Most women enjoy flowers more than they do foliage plants. This is a generalization, since many, many women grow all kinds of plants, but the larger non growing public has a narrow interest. There are lots of people who like flowers but are not interested in growing plants, the cut flower industry is proof of this. These people care little if the plants are hard to grow or not, and have no problems displaying shade loving Aroid flowers along with sunflowers and roses, something that would irritate the life out of me, since i know that in nature, these would not be found on the same continent, let alone the same basket. I am not sorry that Nepenthes are less popular than Orchids, i would hate to see these Majestic plants being treated as Orchids are.
|
|
|
Post by rainforest on Oct 25, 2010 17:50:55 GMT -10
The proverbial "skin a rabbit" but to each their own!
My qualms is that even today (and with Stewart's book) the literature on cultivation rests entirely on botanists (not their strongest mind-point to do). Many orchid books has a famous photographer, a noteworthy for describing the species, and of course a person renown for growing them to perfection. Possibly with all three credentials wrapped into one. This is not the case in all of today's literature on nepenthes. You can pick up most orchid books and grow them to perfection. This is not possible for nepenthes. Of course you can learn a few tricks on coffee fertilizing, using crushed limestone, or even grow your plants in special trays or baskets. The main point of the grower's cultivation notes are still learned from books on the subject. If these notes are wrong to begin with, then cultivation techniques will be stunted and dwarfed by such literature. When books on nepenthes begin to inform the reader about fertilizing, trying new methods of growing them outside a grow chamber, subjecting them to wind, sun and all natural conditions, then perhaps we'll see more success stories and then more people wanting to grow these plants. The many cultivation books that have been produced all are factors in each plant category's success. Bonsai is not a secret handed down generation growing technique, but one that can be taught and learned from the proper kind of literature on the subject.
M
|
|
|
Post by philgreen on Oct 26, 2010 8:26:59 GMT -10
Obviously everyone on here has an attraction to Neps - but I think we are likely to remain a 'weird' minority. For my money, I don't think Nep growing is ever going to rival Orchids in UK/Europe/US, - partly because we do need special growing conditions, but also for all the other reasons which have been mentioned. Asia 'may' be a different situation, as there climate is better suited to growing them. I don't think 'poor cultural advise' is really holding them back - killing a few maybe, but not stopping people growing them. But, one thing that surprises me. You keep saying Bonsai is popular along with Orchids - ARE THEY I know quite a few people who grow Neps (obviously), I know several people who grow a few orchids (I grow a few and even my mum keeps killing a few) - but I don't know anyone who grows Bonsai. It actually surprises me that you consider it popular. I would have thought there were even less growers than Neps - but maybe I've just missed them ?
|
|
|
Post by dvg on Oct 26, 2010 12:06:16 GMT -10
But, one thing that surprises me. You keep saying Bonsai is popular along with Orchids - ARE THEY I know quite a few people who grow Neps (obviously), I know several people who grow a few orchids (I grow a few and even my mum keeps killing a few) - but I don't know anyone who grows Bonsai. It actually surprises me that you consider it popular. I would have thought there were even less growers than Neps - but maybe I've just missed them ? From personal experience, there are several plant societies around here, where I live...Edmonton, Alberta. There is an Orchid society, a Cactus and Succulent society, an African Violet and Gesneriad society as well as a Bonsai Society. But there ain't no CP society nor is there a Nepenthes Society...probably just a little too far out there for mainstream Edmontonians. But perhaps in time that will change too... dvg
|
|
|
Post by thezyo on Oct 26, 2010 18:11:11 GMT -10
Well I'm a hard-headed woman and I didn't read any nepenthes books before I started growing and I think it's working out fine for me. I kept them inside on a window in Michigan and Vermont in the USA for starters with my first vent/random hybrids/sanguineas and they did fine, and now I'm growing them outside on my balcony in San Diego after 6-8 months of window growing here too. The only thing I really listened to to take potting advice is when people saw how wrinkly my hamata leaves were they suggested that my superbly low humidity really was stunting/torturing the plants so I switched to an lfs : perlite mixture and it's worked out well. Otherwise, i'm winging it like with the Heliamphora too (though I had to take some advice on feeding on the Helis...but temps wise, I'm doing it wrong).
Of course, I had some random uhls inside that looked like trash after a while because I didn't know what a healthy nepenthes was supposed to look like, so maybe that's something to think about - how to get people to know what a healthy nep looks like. But otherwise window sill growing is great if you can get a southern exposure window for intermediates (perfectly suited to the average home) because inside growing's restriction is that the glass seems to cut out half of what they get outside, which inhibits pitcher production.
I think the main part is that they're usually the same price for random small plants or mutts as orchids, and people are afraid of them like orchids. The difference is that they have friends that will tell them the orchids will last a few weeks if they soak them in water a couple times a week or something (the regular phalaenopsis mutts will survive this for a month or two before rotting out) and they'll have nice flowers out of it, but nobody has somebody telling them the basics of what such an alien plant as a nepenthes really needs. I always end up with unwanteds that I farm out to friends I know in town and I tell them it's the exact same requirements as orchids (water through the pot once a week) except a direct-sunshine window sill instead of one out of the direct sun, and they're all over wanting to have one from me. Even the people who can manage to kill grass!
They ask me how about feeding them and I tell them to just drop a betta pellet (everyone has one these days, right?) into each pitcher that opens and they'll be all right. It's like with 1 year old kids - if you look shocked and horrified when they fall, they'll start screaming and wailing; but if you pick them up and pat them on their way they won't know that you're expecting them to be hurt. If you don't make the nepenthes sound scary and just give people the plants you know will succeed for their conditions (sang, miranda, vent, etc.) they won't freak out. They won't necessarily make nice "cut flower" arrangements, but if you know someone with phal hybrids they can get to re-bloom, it's worth it for the hobby to expand to give that person an extra N.sang out of the goodness of your heart to just get it out there for more people to see. And lend out your book library too in case they get curious about getting into it more seriously..
|
|
Dave Evans
Nobiles
dpevans_at_rci.rutgers.edu
Posts: 490
|
Post by Dave Evans on Oct 28, 2010 11:48:09 GMT -10
I Nepenthes were never as popular as Orchids, not before WW2, nor after. Their must be a reason for this, and a lack of information hardly seems the likely culprit. Like Heavy Metal, Nepenthes aren't popular. And this is good. There is a reason, they are anti-pop--non-mainstream. Orchids and pop music are for the easily entertained. Some people want more, more detail (Nepenthes) more talent (music). Frankly, Orchids are boring. I have a couple; and they do look really nice now and then, but most of the time, they're just making plain leaves whereas happy Nepenthes plants looks good all the time.
|
|
|
Post by peterhewitt on Oct 29, 2010 3:59:35 GMT -10
Certainly Dave. I agree that the populations of people who listen to Metal are more likely to be the purchasers of these kinds of plants. Orchids are a mainstream hobby, with Nepenthes much less so. I also agree that this is not entirely a bad thing. I myself have always been a non conformist and gravitate towards people of the same type. These are mostly the people interested in my plants too. I see however, that more and more people are becoming interested in non mainstream activities.
|
|
|
Post by agustinfranco on Oct 30, 2010 19:36:41 GMT -10
Hi all:
After reading most of the responses, I would have to speak a piece of my mind. Yes, growing Nepenthes is a bit gender biased, as most of the opposite sex would not grow these kinds of plants. So what. I don't particularly grow orchids, so i would not know how difficult these are to grow in comparison with Nepenthes. But at the end of the day, which kind of plant brings you more joy to grow?. I don't really have to answer that question, because I think it's pretty obvious.
I always believe that Nepenthes are special plants, because they don't only look pretty, but they also feed on unwanted bugs, a t hing that orchids may never do.
Gus
|
|
|
Post by dvg on Nov 2, 2010 14:57:31 GMT -10
It's probably fair to say that this debate is going to be slightly slanted towards Nepenthes over orchids. That's fair enough, as afterall this is an exclusive Nepenthes site. But in fairness to orchids, they do, for the most part, have much more impressive flowers than do Neps. And in some cases, such as this Cattleya flower in my collection, they can have a very intoxicating scent. This flowering orchid smells very similar to a gardenia flower with a finishing hint of citrus blossoms. So even though I too have been bitten hard by the Nep Bug, an orchid or two in bloom during the year adds something else to the mix that seems to complement the Neps in my collection quite nicely. dvg
|
|
|
Post by morbus on Nov 4, 2010 1:00:55 GMT -10
thats i good looking flower!! and i would prefer smelling a Gardena flower over a nepenthes flower . . .
I struggle with orchids, but i also think they would be very nice in along side Nepenthes . . .
|
|
|
Post by dvg on Nov 5, 2010 11:37:01 GMT -10
Thanks Morbus.
Another thing that hasn't really been addressed with regards to this debate is that there are only around 140 Nepenthes species to choose from, with those species being all quite similar with only a few distinguishing variabilities.
Orchids on the other hand are comprised of over 25,000 different species with a boatload of morphological oddities and differences in that grouping.
There is probably an orchid for every taste, if the truth be told.
I still believe though that we can grow both Neps and orchids happily together in balanced harmony. ;D
dvg
|
|