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Post by ep on Jun 30, 2013 14:15:18 GMT -10
Hi All. Been a while since we posted here but we are always in the background. Sam, just looking at your pics on this thread and there are some nice ones here and all growing well A couple of things though. I am intrigued with that Pasian truncata! It has wings and some decurrency in its tendril. Can you post some close ups of the leaf and leaf tip? Also the eustachya from us looks like our eustachya x thorelii(bokorensis?) and pretty sure BE's is eustachya x reinwardtiana. Just one more, , your N.Burgundy looks like it has maxima or similar in it. Do you have a maxima x TM? Hope this is helpful. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by ep on May 19, 2012 14:39:46 GMT -10
Hi All. dirtbiketina: Here are the N.(spectabilis x truncata) x boschiana pics you asked for. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by ep on May 13, 2012 13:35:09 GMT -10
Tuuagso, you have a nice plant of N.ventricosa-red x aristolochioides, growing very well.
Andrea.
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Post by ep on Jul 4, 2010 22:27:07 GMT -10
Hi All, Well grown aristo, Sam. You know what they say though, 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by ep on Jun 27, 2009 14:49:51 GMT -10
Hi All, Sam, Yes this is one of the largest we have produced to date. Many around the 2 litre mark and many taller but this one had the largest volume. I would speculate that there is more chance that plants in cultivation will continually produce optimum sized pitchers due to their needs being constantly met, where in nature it is rare that the plants needs are constantly taken care of, it is more of a random event. In the wild the occasional large pitcher (larger than has been described) has been seen, however this is the exception. Yet in cultivation the plants can exceed these described sizes, as can be seen with our recent N.boschiana photo for example, with constant care and control of cultivation needs. Hi Lam, Yes this plant came from BE but I am pretty sure that it was from seed. I say this as we bought 10 plants and 8 were the species and 2 were hybrids. Out of the plants we have left of the species they all vary in size and shape. Speculating again, I would say that plants with smaller pitchers in the same conditions are N.bellii hybrids, complex or otherwise. These 2 species are very close in plant morphology and it is difficult to tell them apart. In the field it would be easy to see two plants with different size pitchers that may be slightly different in shape also, and say that is variation in the species. Yet in a controlled environment, like a nursery with the same plants, one would have to ask other questions to understand the differences. So therefore I would say, no, not everyone else in the world has this or our other clones. I don't even think BE has N.merrilliana in tc? As for N.truncata, if they came from us they are all seed grown individuals from our many different seed grown parents. Cultivation definitely plays it's part! It really is a balance. I wish we could grow a N.rajah this big! It will come though Steve, We have seedlings just germinated of this male with one of our females. The female plant is not quite as big as the male plant yet but still the dark pink colour. Our aim is always to produce the best, in our eyes, a species can be with our breeding. Also N.merrilliana x xtrusmadiensis and N.merrilliana x N.Gothica. Frankie, All the photos are of the same pitcher. No difference in cultivation techniques from normal. I think the big difference that a lot of growers don't realise, is that Nepenthes plants are not mature just because they have flowered. It can take many years and base shoots to see a plants full potential. This particular plant always has several pitchers on it over 2 litres but this was the largest, to date. In our situation the plants do best in Spring and Autumn so this seems to point at them being intermediate like N.truncata. Rich this plant produces both the large rosette and prehensile tendrils on it's upper pitchers when it climbs. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by ep on Jun 25, 2009 22:46:11 GMT -10
Hi All, Sam you must have missed this post last year. The N.merrilliana pitcher below held 3 litres of fluid. It got caught under the lip of another pot when forming and was a bit deformed so it would have gone over 3 litres if formed properly. Incidentally, this is the male plant we have used in all our N.merrilliana hybrids to date. On this note N.lowii x merrilliana should be large enough for sale some time next year cheers, Geoff
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Post by ep on Feb 13, 2009 21:05:57 GMT -10
Hi All, Thank you Michelle and Sam for your kind words. Embarassed? No, only if I made a mistake or get caught with my pants down The only thing I would ask is that members who make comment in these discussions, please give some backup to their input. Either with photos or experiences or references, as it helps with resolutions. Dave Evans, for example, you have made many statements in this and other forums and when I have asked you to post photos, they are not forthcoming. Are you just speculating? If so, please say that, as more inexperienced members tend to believe those posts. Regarding the topic at hand, I have given it some more thought after reading all the input. The reason we said anything is because the pitchers just didn't look right. Sometimes it is hard to put a finger on what seems out of place exactly. At first I thought it was just the shape of the pitcher, mouth angle, pitcher colour, over undulation of the lid etc. but then I found that old photo of the intermediate of our plant, which was similar in shape although Sam's was an upper. I also know that pitchers can vary due to incorrect cultivation techniques. However Sam is a great grower and I don't think that this is the case. So it seemed that the biggest thing against this plant being a pure species was the colour. An alternative name for N.burbidgeae is 'Painted Pitcher Plant' , named because of it's external markings. My experience in the wild with this plant is nil, however, Clarke, Kurata and Jebb and Cheek all make reference to the colour being a definitive characteristic from all other species. I have seen a few of these all white N.burbidgeaes, other than Sam's, yet there has never been any reference to them in the wild, where populations are supposed to be limited. Sam, I also looked at the additional photos you posted. I can see how you could get this plant to fit the descriptions. It is very close but it still didn't seem right to us. It does not seem like a primary hybrid with anything that grows with it. Can you tell me, is this plant the same age as your others but the fastest growing? Was the origin of these plants from wild collected seed either tced or sown normally? I know at first it looked like it was showing N.fusca characteristics and I thought about the point Sam made about it lacking coulour if N.fusca was involved. However, we have a plant which we have had for many years which we were told was a white N.fusca. It is similar to the plant BE calls their orange N.fusca. It does look a bit like N.fusca but on closer examination N.burbidgeae traits can be seen in it. If you like to re-read any descriptions, you can see that the description for N.burbidgeae and N.fusca are very close in the plant characteristics. Yet one would expect that the hybrid with these two species, even a complex one with the female being N.burbidgeae, would have some external markings. Therefore what could it be? After much deliberation and thought and examination of the plant parts Sam posted, I would not be surprised if the hybrid culprit is N.stenophylla. I know that there has been no mention of this in texts I have read but they do grow near each other. It also accounts for the plant parts that don't seem to fit. So for what it's worth, that is our opinion. Wow, I think I hear the monograph/texts pages rattling from here ;D Cheers, Geoff
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Post by ep on Feb 7, 2009 3:03:44 GMT -10
Hi All, It's funny the path these species discussions take Firstly I am not trying to convince anyone anyway. I am just presenting the facts how I see them from growing Neps for many years. I really don't like jumping in and bringing up these points when someone is presenting their plant that they bought as N.sp whatever but at times I am compelled to do so. I mean no offense and am just trying to keep the integrity of the species in question based on my knowledge and observations over the years. My intention is to help. Also I can be incorrect and if so I have gained some knowledge. Regarding your plant in question Sam, there is one thing that no one has mentioned or just overlooked in every monograph and that is the colouration. N.burbidgeae has a white/porcelain pitcher with red/purple splotches on the outside. The photo of Chien Lee/BE's plant also shows these markings. Below is a photo of an intermediate pitcher and lower pitcher from the same plant that I posted the photos of the uppers. You can see the intermediate has a similar shape to your upper but has the typical colour. The lower pitchers you also posted of the other plant do look true to type. The lid is a bit odd but these plants could be still immature. Please post some photos of the plant parts if you would like to see if these fit. BTW. Where did you obtain these plants from originally? Cheers, Geoff
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Post by ep on Feb 3, 2009 14:29:39 GMT -10
Hi All,
I suppose it comes down to a good eye and interpretation of the descriptions as already mentioned.
Dave: What you call 'classic' I would call the 'type' shape. What you call a 'trade off in characteristics', I would ask what you are trading with and call them hybrid influences. Yes there probably is different populations so more chances of hybridization.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by ep on Jan 27, 2009 21:01:42 GMT -10
Hi All, Sam, I guess that is the problem with monographs and their interpretations. Different people can have different interpretations of what they read. It would be great if monographs had diagnostic colour photos with them. My comment was based on seeing your upper pitchers and thinking something is not quite right with them. I then recalled the horizontal mouth of the photo of the upper pitcher in Kurata's book. I then read Jebb abd Cheek's Flora Malesiana and their description of an orbiculate mouth that is horizontal, rising abruptly at the rear to the neck is how I interpreted the description. No doubt there is some variation in plants and I assume all N.burbidgeae and most other species actually, are from wild collected seed and due to this I pose the question: If it is variation, what causes it? Anyway below is a photo of an upper on one of our plants for comparison. Cheers, Geoff And for comparison:
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Post by ep on Jan 26, 2009 12:12:45 GMT -10
Hi All,
Sam, It's hard to tell from pics. The plants are still immature and the lowers seem to be a lot like others I've seen. The leaves and other plant parts may need to be examined to give a better idea. If you read the type description and also look at Kurata's, Nepenthes of Mt.Kinabalu, it will give you an idea. There may be a bit of N.fusca in them but without looking at the other plant parts it's hard to tell. Also if you breed with it you will see some variation in the progeny if it's a hybrid.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by ep on Jan 21, 2009 14:10:34 GMT -10
Hi All,
Been a while. Sam nicely grown plants as usual. Can you post photos of the lowers of that first plant as the uppers are not typical. The mouth is the wrong angle and shape and the lid is unusual with the frills. Thanks.
Geoff
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Post by ep on Dec 5, 2008 19:49:15 GMT -10
Hi All,
I never noticed Michael's thread. Perhaps I should have posted it there. No Frankie, it is not from BE it is one we produced. I was asking if anyone could see the sib x hamata charcteristics in it that a lot want to see in BE's plants.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by ep on Dec 4, 2008 21:03:08 GMT -10
Hi All, Been a bit busy and haven't posted here for a while but just had to on this topic. Below could be the first photos of N.sib x hamata. What do you all think? These could be the photos to end this debate and perhaps destroy or strengthen the 'faith' of viridis's and others Cheers, Geoff
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Post by ep on Sept 12, 2008 15:05:36 GMT -10
Hi All, Are you guys having some nuclear fallout in the northern hemisphere ;D. We have seen these mutations and worse many times over the years with tissue cultured plants. It will always be our opinion that conservation through cultivation using todays tc methods will never be the answer if you want to preserve the species! Have to agree with Rainforest on this topic Cheers, Geoff BTW. I hope you are all coming down here for the ICPS conference at the end of the month?
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