Ancient and more Modern species
Jul 17, 2009 10:00:35 GMT -10
Post by leilani on Jul 17, 2009 10:00:35 GMT -10
Good morning marka!
*(marka)
Although what you suggest would seem to be true I am not satisfied that this premise supports the conclusion. First of all, although most Nepenthes don’t like waterlogged conditions their tolerance of such conditions is pretty good. (I once grew a N. ventrata in nothing but water for almost two years before it expired.)
Granted that N. mirabilis is more tolerant of wet conditions than most Nepenthes species I don’t see this as offering much support to the conclusion that it is a newer species. A similar argument could be designed for N. villosa. N. villosa grows under much colder conditions than most Nepenthes will tolerate. Does that imply that it is a newer (or older) species?
There might even be an argument that goes something like this:
Life and evolution love water. That all life forms spring from wet environments and that drought tolerance is an advanced evolutionary development. This premise might be used to suggest the opposite of your conclusion, i.e., that warm tolerant species must have evolved first.
I tend to think of N. mirabilis as an older species for the following reasons:
It is possibly suggested by most of the criteria I listed at the beginning of this thread ....
"Wide and diverse distribution", "hybrid dominance", "species variation", "seedling ontogeny" and the presence of "archaic traits".
To this we might add the following possible criteria: "water and heat tolerance". The argument would go something like that suggested above. Namely, that life and diversity arise most often in warm and wet conditions and that, therefore, those species best adapted to these condition are somehow closer to ancestral plants than those that have evolved to tolerate dry and cold environments. Why not?
*(marka)
The majority of Nepenthes won't and cant grow in similar conditions as Mirabilis
Although what you suggest would seem to be true I am not satisfied that this premise supports the conclusion. First of all, although most Nepenthes don’t like waterlogged conditions their tolerance of such conditions is pretty good. (I once grew a N. ventrata in nothing but water for almost two years before it expired.)
Granted that N. mirabilis is more tolerant of wet conditions than most Nepenthes species I don’t see this as offering much support to the conclusion that it is a newer species. A similar argument could be designed for N. villosa. N. villosa grows under much colder conditions than most Nepenthes will tolerate. Does that imply that it is a newer (or older) species?
There might even be an argument that goes something like this:
Life and evolution love water. That all life forms spring from wet environments and that drought tolerance is an advanced evolutionary development. This premise might be used to suggest the opposite of your conclusion, i.e., that warm tolerant species must have evolved first.
I tend to think of N. mirabilis as an older species for the following reasons:
It is possibly suggested by most of the criteria I listed at the beginning of this thread ....
"Wide and diverse distribution", "hybrid dominance", "species variation", "seedling ontogeny" and the presence of "archaic traits".
To this we might add the following possible criteria: "water and heat tolerance". The argument would go something like that suggested above. Namely, that life and diversity arise most often in warm and wet conditions and that, therefore, those species best adapted to these condition are somehow closer to ancestral plants than those that have evolved to tolerate dry and cold environments. Why not?