N. sibuyanensis x hamata

[rainforest]

There has been much discussion everywhere about the validity of this cross. From the plants I have seen, I don't believe N. hamata was even present in the room when this cross was made. It actually appears to be a talangensis hybrid involved. Perhaps ep's sibuyanensis x talangensis as the father.


M

[rainforest]

Looking at many of my sibuyanensis hybrids (raff dark x sib, sib x TM, sib x truncata, sib x (spect.x beccariana), sib x fusca, sib x talangensis, macfarlanei x sib, khasiana x sib, sib x ventricosa, sib x ampullaria, etc.) what I have discovered is that all these hybrids exhibit pitchers of the other species when bred to sibuyanensis and the contributing gene from sibuyanensis was the larger pitcher size. In all the hybrids the coloring, shape and form was so evident of the other parent (crossed either way) that one can safely say that all sib hybrids, pitchers will resemble the "other" parent over N. sibuyanensis.
But how does this hybrid with hamata doesn't even have any appearance to hamata, not even coloring or peristome ribbing. Surely N. sibuyanensis' evident ribbing combined with hamata's would show a bit more than what we see in this cross.

In my opinion, it is not that Rob Cantley is guilty of pulling the sheepskin over our eyes, but rather a common occurrence of one of his laborers in charge of a task that should have been left to either Diane or Rob himself.

I have had other experiences where he had left the handling of the paper work to someone else when it came time to get the CITES paperwork that was missing from a shipment sent to me. Could you imagine the mess I was in when USDA, Fish and Game, etc. got involved accusing me of illegally importing plants into the country without any paperwork? Not only CITES paperwork was missing, but my import documents were missing as well making me look like the black market importer.

So I see this cross as another episode of not being in full charge of a task that should have been his to begin with. I'm sure I'm not the only one with horror stories relating to these kinds of mishandling or mismanagement incidents.

M

[rainforest]

Please see these examples of sibuyanensis crossed with other species/hybrids and see what their progeny resembles.
www.lhnn.proboards107.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=outdoor&thread=1004&page=1
As you can see, they all resemble the other parent, with bigger "sib" proportions!

So N. sib x hamata is definitely no way hamata!

M

[nepaholic]

I think the same Michael.
My sib x hamata didn´t show any signs of hamata.
here a picture


Jens

[Robiii]

I do question it but yet I still see something that makes me think it is.

I'm still awaiting mine to get larger. Hoping that will tell.

Rob

[rainforest]

All the hamata hybrids have that peculiar hamata hair cut showing even the slightest nubs on the lids. The hybrid is an imposter for hamata! Even Rokko x hamata has hairs on the lids! (so did Predator and some other hamata hybrids).


I am still waiting to see if Rob Cantley actually performed on this hybrid himself or perhaps left in the hands of someone else. Especially with the houses are separated by sexes, the pollination had to have been deliberate. No excuses!No errors! No accidental bug pollination! "No one else does this (separation of the sexes)" blah blah blah

M

[sdcarnivores]

I personally agreed with the "N. sibuyanensis x Lady Pauline" theory from the get go. No hamata in sight.

[Robiii]

While I see the points given I still don't see it being Lady Pauline, I have a sib x talangensis and sib x hamata being it is still young the sib x hamata grows at a much more consistent and fluent pace while the sib x talangensis is much slower a doesn't tolerate the warmer temperatures as well in my area. The two current pitchers on the sib x talangensis are under three inches at the same the sib x hamata is quikly approaching the same size as the sib x talangensis, so by adding maxima into the equation I could see a bit of the warmth tolerance, but it lacks maxima traits besides the leaves which have already been mentioned. So yes M, I too would still like to hear from Rob to hear if it was him or someone else that pollinated the cross personally or not being that this seems to be one of the only things in mind that could eveal some light on the circumstances. Other opinions are still needed as well I'd believe.

[Robiii]

Here's a side by side comparison of my two plants

N. sibuyanensis x hamata




notice the patterning on the front of the sib x hamata notice the very squared markings which come only from hamata and maybe tentaculta from what I've seen

N. sibuyanensis x talangensis

[sdcarnivores]

Oct 26, 2008 10:49:18 GMT -10 Robiii said:

Here's a side by side comparison of my two plants

N. sibuyanensis x hamata




notice the patterning on the front of the sib x hamata notice the very squared markings which come only from hamata and maybe tentaculta from what I've seen

N. sibuyanensis x talangensis

The spotting is really not that significant, considering it isn't presented over the whole pitcher, and I don't know if it's consistent for every pitcher through the plant's growth to maturity. Plus maxima and talangensis hybrids can produce similar patterns.

pitcherplants.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6668

[rainforest]

hamata hybrids usually have the hair-like protrusions from their lids, which this hybrid lacks any evidence of it.

M

[Robiii]

Would it be possible that sibuyanensis dominated that gene?

[rainforest]

Look at all my sibuyanensis hybrids, where do you see any which sibuyanensis dominating any species. Even something demur as N. khasiana x sibuyanensis shows pitchers so very much like khasiana!

M

[rainforest]

If any of these seedlings had hamata in them, only their own mothers would recognize that!


How sad so many people purchased these hybrids expecting at least a tooth the size of a nasal hair only to discover a smooth ribbed peristome closely resembling N. Lady (Perils of) Pauline! How disappointing!

M

[obregon562]

{How sad so many people purchased these hybrids expecting at least a tooth the size of a nasal hair only to discover a smooth ribbed peristome closely resembling N. Lady (Perils of) Pauline! How disappointing!}

*Cough-cough*


I just hope Rob tells us it was a mistake.