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Post by rainforest on Feb 4, 2009 15:33:36 GMT -10
The very idea of "saving" a species is to have the labels clearly identified. You must know which clone is which and ONLY the seller is able to promote that information. Just saying a random selection of three clones is as redundant as saying there's a male and a female among them. In all submentalism if they knew one clone is female, it would make better sense to propagate ten times more of that one above the others. But then again of you didn't know if any 3 clones were male or female, you'd probably buy all of them just to increase your chances of getting a pair. You should not have to ask what clone it is, it should be taken for granted that everything is upfront when you, the buyer, buys any plant. This is why I have been preaching the advantages of seed grown originals.
M
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Post by rsivertsen on Feb 4, 2009 16:17:46 GMT -10
Someone has already identified Wistuba's clone #3 as being a male, but his clones # 2 and U are still a mystery. There are dozens of other true and pure N. clip's out there, but their owners are keeping very quiet about them; at least one happens to growing in Japan, where it was featured in the ICPS convention a few years ago. There are a few scattered about in Australia and Germany too according to a few anonymous sources. The lucky one who manages to get BOTH male and female plants to bloom the same time will soon have a small fortune at his disposal, I'm sure. - Rich
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Dave Evans
Nobiles
dpevans_at_rci.rutgers.edu
Posts: 490
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Post by Dave Evans on Feb 4, 2009 17:12:15 GMT -10
The very idea of "saving" a species is to have the labels clearly identified. You must know which clone is which and ONLY the seller is able to promote that information. Just saying a random selection of three clones is as redundant as saying there's a male and a female among them. In all submentalism if they knew one clone is female, it would make better sense to propagate ten times more of that one above the others. But then again of you didn't know if any 3 clones were male or female, you'd probably buy all of them just to increase your chances of getting a pair. You should not have to ask what clone it is, it should be taken for granted that everything is upfront when you, the buyer, buys any plant. This is why I have been preaching the advantages of seed grown originals. M Yes, but the dumb people have removed all the N. clipeata and killed it. Where are the seeds supposed to come from? I don't understand why people collect plants, which die thus reducing the natural genetic diversity, when they can collect hundreds of seeds and they could then grow a forest of pitcher plants without harming the natural population.
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Post by rsivertsen on Feb 5, 2009 5:28:25 GMT -10
It's true that collecting was pretty rampant in G. Kelam, even John Turnbull told me that he was unable to find a single mature plant especially one in flower of either gender, and most were recovering from basals near the ground by their main stems reduced to short stubs.
Still, the final blow was the fire that spread through out this hill, burning the entire population of this species, and what was left.
Let's hope some plants managed to find their way into competent growers and we may once again see them available in TC and as seedlings again. - Rich
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Post by rainforest on Feb 5, 2009 7:20:00 GMT -10
I think the problem we have already seen in tc'd species is evident, and while still the moral majority feel that tc clones is the way to go, a better and ultimately long term solution is to have breeding populations of male and female plants, pollen can be frozen and saved. Having seed grown material is the ONLY way we will stop poaching. If enough seed grown material is grown in cultivation only then will we have a big enough gene pool to avoid taking out from the wild. Another benefit to reduce poaching is to de-value the species as a rare commodity. If we sell seed original clips at a fair price we can make bring down the need for wild roughed up beaten up plants. TC plants should be very cheap and the flood on the market will help save this species in the wild. Like N. ventricosa in the wild, chances are no one will collect them as there are more plants in captivity than wild ones. We can hold the same for N. clipeata if we rethink how we are to propagate them. But this will never happen since we're at the hands of growers who artificially create the prices at which they are sold. Even if they had a thousand clones available, they would still be sold in limited numbers and at inflated prices. So much for "saving" this species!
M
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Post by unclemasa on Feb 5, 2009 21:21:44 GMT -10
I have two of Wistuba's clone 2 and two of his clone U. In the same amount of time and under the same conditions the clone 2's are twice as big as the clone U's. Can't say about the sex of either one ...... yet.
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Post by rainforest on May 13, 2010 8:43:41 GMT -10
UPDATE: Has anyone heard or read anything that this group has accomplished or attempted to do? Or was this entire group just a bunch of yeller-mouthed mountain-folk just trying to get some heeehaw attention from the CP enthusiasts. Oh well, I might put up one of those clocks that measures time wasting away on this project.
However these individuals are very well known for their secrecy, even for a publicly accountable organization.
M
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