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Post by jgriffin on Nov 30, 2009 13:36:08 GMT -10
That sounds like a rad hybrid, Dude!
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kain
Insignes
Posts: 144
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Post by kain on Nov 30, 2009 17:34:52 GMT -10
Not being big on artificial hybrids, I think we should shoot for seed-grown species. Granted, there may be some problems associated with severely restricted gene pools (particularly in species like N. clipeata where only six clones (or so) are available), but such a breeding program may be the only hope for that species and many other species that are severely threatened in the wild (N. aristolochioides, for another example).
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Post by mannyherrera on Dec 1, 2009 12:27:34 GMT -10
That sounds like a rad hybrid, Dude! Should be. I'll show everyone once they grow up.
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Post by rainforest on Dec 1, 2009 14:59:55 GMT -10
I have recently seen a new form of N. Miranda appear from the same nurseries which some of the other forms originated from. There was also a female N. Miranda I received from a mixed lot shipment from DeRoos Nursery back in the day. Had I known that many of these original clones were one of a kind, I would have kept more of them. I am hopeful that they still exist. Hopefully being propagated and passed around with varietal names like N. Miranda compact, N. Miranda "Superba", N. Miranda dark, N. Miranda striped peristome, N. Miranda green form, etc.
The problem in using N. Miranda as a breeder is that it isn't registered anywhere and we don't have a positive known parentage of it. Again, let me reiterate the importance of registering a cross. Even if your cross would be a minor one as the person who assumed N. Miranda would be. There are also chances that what may seem to be a "worthless" cross, may seemingly produce huge monsters or vivid colorations or even a tetraploid superduper hybrid. REGISTER Today!
Now in regards to N.clipeata, there's more than the two clones Wistuba offers, but not in sufficient numbers which we all can purchase. I am hopeful that the growers of these other rogue clones may offer pollen or receptive females (as the case may be) to some day produce viable seeds with legitimate cross records (unlike the clipeata x eymae x eymae crosses previously) and grow them where everyone can purchase them. Seed distribution would be the best for transmitting unrelated bloodlines across borders.
I am not the only person who believes that the Clipeata Project is full of holes and is a WORTHLESS effort in CONSERVATION. Look at the members of the board and if you don't see the image of THIEVES coming to mind, then don't bother looking. Tell me that each member really has a positive outlook for this species' survival without cashing in on it. What has been done in CONSERVATION regarding this species since its inception. NOTHING!
M
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Post by dvg on Dec 1, 2009 15:24:07 GMT -10
Just curious Rainforest, but you've stated that Wistuba supplies two clones. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that he at one time offered four clones. (Clones, 1,2,3 and U)
I believe that clone 1 turned out to be N. clipeata x (clipeata x eymae). I have clones 2 and 3. So that would still leave three possible clones available, from Wistuba if I'm not mistaken.
I know that you guys here are a lot more on top of this stuff than I am, but I'd like to know what the status is with the available Wistuba clones. Thanks in advance, for any help with with this.
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Post by walterg on Dec 1, 2009 19:07:30 GMT -10
Should be. I'll show everyone once they grow up. This cat's already out of the bag, Manny.
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Post by mannyherrera on Dec 2, 2009 15:44:20 GMT -10
Walter, I certainly hope at least one of them turns out looking like that. I need a date for a wedding I'm attending soon.
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Post by leilani on Dec 2, 2009 21:48:43 GMT -10
manny .... Nice to hear from you. I wish you luck with the miranda hybrid. With the few I have done with miranda I have been very pleased as they all seem to have great northiana-esque peristomes. Just look at nepnut's hybrid earlier in this thread ... this is what you can expect.
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Post by rainforest on Dec 3, 2009 17:48:03 GMT -10
dvg, I am very certain that clone 2 and 3 are the same clone. I have seen a specific leaf defect that has occurred from time to time on both clones. This is too much of a coincidence that this deformity can occur on two different clones at about the same area of the leaf. Clone 1 (I believe is lost and is not available (I may be getting the numeric identities all mixed up but whomever can substantiate this specifically please state your case too! But I believe that Wistuba just has the one clone and whether clone U is a distinctly different clone has yet to be determined. I'm not banking on any of Wistuba's clipeatas to save the day for this species. I believe there are numerous wild collected/stem propagated clones out there and collectors or growers who own them will put them to good breeding once they become of age or pollen to stigma availability. From these we will see seed original clones and it will be these seed original clones that will pass these species into the next generation of this species. I do not have any faith in the Wistuba clones and just will wait for further development on this species in the hands of the Japanese and Indonesian collectors who have them. Plus I am sure many others out there who have matured plants of this.
M
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