Giving your Neps a coffee treatment

[dvg]

Thanks for the advice Sam. The tide is turning for me with regards to using a more soil based fertilizing regiment.

I'm going to look for another seaweed based fertilizer with a stronger N-P-K formula.

It's one thing to be stubborn in one's view's, it's quite another thing to be foolish...and I know that today isn't that day to be too foolish. ;D

regards.

Doug
dvg

[morbus]

chestofbooks.com/food/beverages/Tea-Coffee-Cocoa/Coffee-Chemical-Composition.html

that link may help, though it doesnt seem complete

www.nutritionanalyser.com/food_composition/?fid=19268

that one also, but there is a problem. . . . .
"chocolate coated coffee bean analysis"

just yesterday i started root feeding with a seaweed fertilizer
though, not at full strength (to scared just yet)
one question though, how much full strength liquid do you add to the pot? cos id imagine that if one person added twice the volume as another, the results would differ. . .

also, i added a product called kelpak (also a seaweed extract), it contains cytokines and auxins-i dont know which ones. you reckon that could be a problem?

--really good discussion here. I learn

[mikuláš]

one question though, how much full strength liquid do you add to the pot? cos id imagine that if one person added twice the volume as another, the results would differ. . .

Actually, I don't think it matters. The medium can only hold so much liquid at a time. Anything in excess will just flow out of the pot. So whether you pour one gallon or ten gallons into the pot, the result will more or less be the same (at least in the case of fertilizer solution).

[dvg]

Apr 8, 2010 23:24:28 GMT -10 morbus said:

just yesterday i started root feeding with a seaweed fertilizer
though, not at full strength (to scared just yet)
one question though, how much full strength liquid do you add to the pot? cos id imagine that if one person added twice the volume as another, the results would differ. . .

also, i added a product called kelpak (also a seaweed extract), it contains cytokines and auxins-i dont know which ones. you reckon that could be a problem?

--really good discussion here. I learn

Hi Morbus,

That's a good idea to start out with a weaker concentration on a new fertilizer and gradually increase the strength once you see how your plants are responding after a few cycles of applied soil fertilization.

I agree with Mikulas in that the volume of diluted fertilizer poured through the pots is not as important as the initial concentration strength of the liquid being applied. As long as you water through the pots so that your fertilizer solution is nicely streaming out of the bottom of your pots, you should be okay.

And that's a good thing that your seaweed fertilizer has some auxins and cytokines in it. Those naturally occuring plant hormones will help your plants grow faster and stronger.

There is a good chance that the seaweed in your fertilizer was harvested off of the coast of Norway or from the North Atlantic. Seaweed from these regions is known for it's higher auxin/cytokine content.

Good luck with your fertilizer program and keep us updated with your progress there.

dvg

[vraev]

pardon the correction here....but I think u mean "cytokinins".

[kain]

I dunno, I like the idea of cellular cows - "cyto-kine" as it were.

[dvg]

Apr 11, 2010 13:52:24 GMT -10 kain said:

I dunno, I like the idea of cellular cows - "cyto-kine" as it were.

Oh well, as we used to say in the 80's,

To err is human, to moo....bovine.

[morbus]

Haha
too moo is bovine indeed!!
so said old McDonald

thanks for that all!
a new thing i learned . . . ."pour fertilizer solution till it runs out the bottom"
I'll do that this coming weekend!!

I only have most of my plants for about a month and a half
so
something interesting
before my last batch of 30 plants, i had never received bare root plants-which means i dont know how they would normally react. but, when i potted them up i put a weaker solution of the above fertilizer in their pitchers. and i think it helped alot. i judge that based on their recovery time, and subsequent growth.
all the plants (other than lowii) started making new leaves and pitchers in max a few days. and i really mean that-i was surprised as i expected most of them to sit still for a few weeks. but, i could see leaves unfolding and pitchers swelling. is that normal or do you think that fert made a difference? also, after a few weeks they slowed down which was a contributory factor in deciding to take the plunge with fertilizing.

dvg
since you reckon the hormones would be good. you think it could be good to add specific growth hormones? or should i just leave it at whatever the seaweed give us? I have been contemplating treating plants with BAP (like the TC people use). . . .

has this discussion determined that soil fertilization with seaweed fertilizer is better than coffee? and produced better results safely? dvg, would you switch to soil seaweed fert despite your obvious success with coffee (i hope i remember correctly that it was you with the vilosa and macrophyla ?

[dvg]

Hi Morbus,

As far as plant hormones go, I am aware of some Nepenthes and orchid growers using BAP to make up a type of keiki paste. Keiki paste is applied to unactivated nodes on Nepenthes stems. Once applied the nodes become activated and grow out new shoots from the nodes. It is a good way to get extra cuttings quickly from a desired plant.

I do know of some growers that have had short term success with using plant hormones on their small plants. But these plant hormones act like steroids on the plants and shouldn't be used too often. In fact, more study should be given to using plant hormones on Nepenthes plants. Until those studies are done, the long term affects of applied plant hormones on Nepenthes is still unkown at this point, at least to me anyway.

With regards to coffee feeding vs soil fertilization with commercial ferts, I will say that the coffee feedings are safe if applied once every six months. Soil fertilizers if applied too ambitiously, can result in burning of the plant roots, larger leaves and lack of pitchers. But if applied in the proper proportions, great results have been achieved by growers that have tried this form of fertilizing. And some of the growers that have used soil fertilizing are so convinced of the positive growth shown in their Neps after starting a soil fertilization program, and they become such satisfied believers in that type of feeding program, that many of them won't be looking for too many other feeding options.

I have found the coffee feeding to be interesting, and that was my starting point with soil fertilizing. I am now ready to try using a seaweed based low urea liquid fertilizer for soil application with my Neps. I'm prepared to proceed carefully and cautiously at first. Others have had good success with this type of fertilization program, and I think it can have beneficial effects on my plants as well.

dvg

[rainforest]

ahhh, uhmm, hmmmmmm,
Just treat nepenthes like it is a normal plant and everything will work out. In most plants, when you fertilize them with regularity, they grow and develop faster than if you didn't.
If johnny fertilized his sweet peas plants (like fertilizing his nepenthes) they will grow faster. But if Johnny just wanted to depend on the natural nitrifying bacteria that legumes have to make them grow (akin to having a nepenthes feed entirely from insect prey for nutrients) I believe lower results would occur due to their nutrition being basic minimal. They can survive and will grow, but in both scenarios, the addition of fertilizers would increase their growth and development.


But having been brainwashed by previous nepenthes moguls this might be a difficult and challenging concept to fathom.

N. ventricosa when fertilized regularly:

M

[dvg]

Apr 12, 2010 8:50:47 GMT -10 rainforest said:

But having been brainwashed by previous nepenthes moguls this might be a difficult and challenging concept to fathom.

Just refer to Leilani's signature for this one:

"The difficulty lies, not in the new ideas, but in escaping from the old ones ..." John Maynard Keynes

dvg

[morbus]

thats a cool analogy rainforest!!
sadly, im one of those brainwashed people
in my defense, they have a good argument
though, as you said dvg "It's one thing to be stubborn in one's view's, it's quite another thing to be foolish...and I know that today isn't that day to be too foolish."

so, also
i'll la off anything not in seaweed extract!
ive done alot of reading on the keiki paste. im keen to try it on neps
though i wont feed BAP like a fertilizer.

im a science guy
so its funny how tentative i am to "mess" with my neps considering the things i mess around with in a lab
thanks doods

dvg, as requested. i'll keep you posted on what happens. i'll try to keep a photos and time course.

[rainforest]

I think everyone is getting too technical. Coffee, keiki-grow paste, cytokinis, auxins, et al. Nepenthes are just plants that aside from using soil nutrients and photosynthesizing like so many other plants they also can capture and utilize nutrients via pitchers from dead-decaying insects/fruits/and feces.

Seedling nepenthes can over come that slow stunted appearance and jet into more quicker growth cycles and in turn produce larger pitchers and better root development. I just think everyone should at least try it even on a few select plants and decide for themselves. The scientists that have formulated these fertilizers have done their tests and trials and their recommended rates are based on these. Treat nepenthes like all plants and they will grow like everything else.


M

[kain]

Interesting side note: I got 2 of BEs 'King x Queen' truncatas and sprayed one of them with 500 ppm gibberelic acid the day after I got it (and only the day after I got it). Four months later, the plants look very different. The pitchers on the one I sprayed are much larger, and the plant's lamina are weirdly elongated. The sprayed plant has also produced more leaves. We'll see how it progresses. I'd show photos, but I don't have a digital camera.

[dvg]

Gibberellic acid can have profound and powerful effects on some plants. I've heard that if it is sprayed on lettuce plants that it will cause the lettuce to bolt into ten foot tall plants.

One Canadian Cp grower, whom i know, told me that he sprayed one of his Neps with a GA-3 solution he had mixed up himself. Overnight, he claimed that the sprayed Nep vined out a foot and continued to vine seven or eight inches per day. He eventually discarded his experiment gone amuck. And needless to say, GA-3 isn't something he sprays on his Neps anymore.

GA-3 can be quite useful for stimulating difficult seeds to germinate quicker than they normally would, but the hormone can also cause mutant plants to occur from some of the germinated seeds.

But there is no denying that it is fun to play Mad Scientist, at least from time to time. ;D

dvg