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Post by unclemasa on Jun 4, 2009 23:06:42 GMT -10
There are some giant pitchers in the wild. Just what the maximum size is by volume is unanswered. A two liter pitcher is large but not uncommon for big rajah, truncata, merrilliana, macrophylla, etc. In the greenhouse I have seen some monster Exotica hybrids but have no idea just what may be the largest. Still, I don't recall anything approaching three liters. Here are three of the largest at my nursery ..... height: measured from bottom of pitcher to top of peristome.
volume: Pitcher is filled with water until it overflows. Pitcher is tilted to allow maximum capacity.N. truncata (45.7 cm / 2000 ml)  N. sibuyanensis x truncata (35.5 cm / 2060 ml)  N. Caesar (36.8 / 2250 ml)  |
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Post by sdcarnivores on Jun 5, 2009 16:09:08 GMT -10
Jeez those are huge! I really need a Caesar. I'd guess my largest lowii x truncata pitcher to only hold between 1.5 and 2 liters :/. Did you measure it by pouring water into the pitchers? *NVM, read more closely  . We should have a largest pitcher volume competition. But then again, I'm sure you and EP would pretty much rule it... |
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obregon562
Nobiles
"I do believe Im feeling stronger everyday."
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Post by obregon562 on Jun 5, 2009 17:46:37 GMT -10
mmm i love truncatas! Those things are beasts in every sense of the word. Nice job Sam, like you need us to tell you that haha.
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jimmy
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Post by jimmy on Jun 5, 2009 19:14:13 GMT -10
We should have a largest pitcher volume competition. But then again, I'm sure you and EP would pretty much rule it... I second that motion! I'm definitely up for some nice new photos of EP's most monstrous plants! |
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Post by sdcarnivores on Jun 11, 2009 12:26:56 GMT -10
With so many new hybrids produced and species discovered over the years, and cultivation techniques becoming more and more refined, it begs the question, what is considered a "huge" pitcher? Is it just generally any Nep that produces pitchers that can fit more than 2 L of fluid? I remember the days when 8" pitchers were considered to be large, because of the available species back then and the relative difficulty of growing the plants to a large size from the often tiny sizes available. Today it is easy to find large specimen plants of all sorts of species and hybrids, and most of these plants can easily top over 8" for most growers. So what is"huge" evermore?
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obregon562
Nobiles
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Post by obregon562 on Jun 12, 2009 16:45:07 GMT -10
to me, the "huge" benchmark is 24", whats that, 60 cm?
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Post by sdcarnivores on Jun 12, 2009 19:06:03 GMT -10
to me, the "huge" benchmark is 24", whats that, 60 cm? 24"  I've never heard of a pitcher being that large... a Sarracenia maybe, but not a Nepenthes . |
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Post by mikuláš on Jun 13, 2009 3:05:19 GMT -10
But then again, I'm sure you and EP would pretty much rule it... With ...and cultivation techniques becoming more and more refined... I know I'm exposing my ignorance, but I have to ask: Why would EP rule it? Are their secrets to giant pitchers known or are they still, well, secret? And what exactly are growers doing today that they didn't do in the past? (I'm new and unfamiliar with the assumptions behind those statements....sorry if I'm asking to beat a dead horse yet again...) Kudos, though, on the pitchers -- magnificent! ~Nicholas |
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obregon562
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Post by obregon562 on Jun 13, 2009 6:40:46 GMT -10
dont get me wrong, in think the pitchers Sam is showing us are really really amazingly big, but i think 24" is that size everyone shoots for, the true unheard of "huge". Nicholas, EP just seems to have a way with size. Look at their recent N. boschiana pitchers. Thats a world record size for that species. Their truncatas i believe have gotten pretty close to 24", and many many other pitchers theyve posted have been insanely large (think their bucket merrilliana, lowii x truncata eating Andrea's head pictures, etc...). I dont believe EP would be the sole contendor though. Look at these three pictures Sam has posted! DAAAAMN those are big! And his "Caeser" isnt even mature yet (is it haha?). THats frankly scary how big that hybrid could get. Im, sure many other growers have had freak one-and-done giants as well, or are harboring some gargantuan deep in their most gaured areas...The world may never know!  |
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Post by rainforest on Jun 16, 2009 7:39:59 GMT -10
This is becoming more and more like the world's largest tomato, or the world's largest pumpkin. It's all a matter of getting all the crucial elements working together. Nutrients + moisture/humidity levels + weather conditions + stage of plant (as only lowers can attain a huge size in comparison) + lack of parasites on plants. All add up to the perfect condition for making a large pitcher. My N. rafflesiana dark x sibuyanensis produced a pitcher the size of a coconut once. But this was during our period of rain when it rained constantly for forty days and forty nights (no floods though and no pairing of animals was gathered). But has never produced a pitcher this large again. It's all a matter of timing and having the right variables on hand simultaneously.
Previously, no one had ever heard of fertilizing their nepenthes. This is common practice today. All plants require nutrients to grow through their root entry. Pitcher nutrients is just supplemental and not enough for the plants to sustain functions alone. If this were true, nepenthes would not have such an intricate root system. Any way, root feeding is important if one is to obtain large pitcher dimensions.
M
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Post by unclemasa on Jun 22, 2009 23:06:23 GMT -10
I have read and hear tell of 24" N. truncata pitchers but don't recall ever having seen one near that big. Still, I don't doubt that this species is capable of producing a pitcher of that height. There are basically three ways to measure a pitcher's size: height, girth and volume. I have had lowland N. truncata that produces larger pitchers than the one pictured above but, in spite of their apparent larger size, they attained a slightly smaller volume. I think if I was interested in just making the tallest pitcher around I might try crossing a very long N. mirabilis with a big N. truncata. (Has anyone heard of a N. mirabilis x truncata combination?) A girth measurement is somewhat interesting although such measurements are rarely mentioned. I would imagine N. rajah and N. merrilliana would be near the top on this list. The best measure, of course, is volume. Too bad its such a cumbersome task to take such measurements. I have heard stories of 3 and 4 liter N. rajah (and others) but cannot imagine them to be true. My guess is that a 3 liter pitcher might exist in nature (I'd love to see one) but that anything larger will only come from the breeder's greenhouse. I don't see anything to prevent breeders from selectively crossing various Nepenthes and ultimately producing a pitcher with a volume of 1 gal. or more.  It's interesting that, on the opposite end of the scale, it seems much more difficult to breed smaller pitchers that to breed larger ones. It would seem to me that in order to produce smaller pitchers a breeder would do well to avoid making hybrids at all and selectively breed for smaller pitchers withing a particular species (e.g., N. bellii). |
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Dave Evans
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Post by Dave Evans on Jun 24, 2009 16:36:11 GMT -10
Dear Sam, I mentioned something similar in the Nepenthes maxima 'Lake Poso' article about selective breeding producing smaller maxima plants. But, I'm not really sure what the point of trying to breed a Nepenthes that is smaller than N. bellii or N. tenuis--They already are so very small... I do like to be able to see my plants |
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Post by ep on Jun 25, 2009 22:46:11 GMT -10
Hi All, Sam you must have missed this post last year. The N.merrilliana pitcher below held 3 litres of fluid. It got caught under the lip of another pot when forming and was a bit deformed so it would have gone over 3 litres if formed properly. Incidentally, this is the male plant we have used in all our N.merrilliana hybrids to date. On this note N.lowii x merrilliana should be large enough for sale some time next year  cheers, Geoff    |
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Post by unclemasa on Jun 25, 2009 23:11:23 GMT -10
Wow Geoff! I'm loving that.
Is this the largest pitcher your nursery has produced?
Care to speculate on size potentials in nature and the nursery?
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Post by lamwn on Jun 25, 2009 23:31:45 GMT -10
Hi All, Sam you must have missed this post last year. The N.merrilliana pitcher below held 3 litres of fluid. It got caught under the lip of another pot when forming and was a bit deformed so it would have gone over 3 litres if formed properly. Incidentally, this is the male plant we have used in all our N.merrilliana hybrids to date. On this note N.lowii x merrilliana should be large enough for sale some time next year cheers, Geoff Hi Geoff, I think I recall you saying this before, but just wanted to ask again if this N.merriliana orginates from BE's TC stock? Often it is a question of nature vs nurture; genes vs cultivation conditions, and which plays the larger part in bringing out size. If this is the same clone of N. merri (and N.trunc, for that matter) that the rest of the world has, then they are truly good examples of cultivation being the limiting factor to giant pitchers. thanks Lam |
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. We should have a largest pitcher volume competition. But then again, I'm sure you and EP would pretty much rule it...
I've never heard of a pitcher being that large... a Sarracenia maybe, but not a Nepenthes 
