Potting Mix 2010

[leilani]

I standardized a few years back on a mix of coco chips, peat, perlite and cinder. The proportions are roughly 1/1/1/1 but I have never been very strict about these proportions. I can't even tell you why I employ this group of ingredients other than they are readily available. The coco chips and perlite have always been "filler". Volcanic cinder is an excellent growing media and, for a while, I was considering eliminating the coco chips and periite and using just cinder and a little peat ( ... in the form of ProMix) to hold some moisture. Now, "cinder", one of the few natural resources of a Volcanic Island, has become a problem for the Dept. of Agriculture.

So, my standard mix, in 2010, for plants intended for export will be coco chips, perilte and peat .... 4/3/3. Don't even ask me why the perlite as I don't have a good answer. This mix is well drained but retains a little moisture and generally suits my usually wet environment.

Something else that I will be doing different in 2010 is eliminating live sphagnum from plants intended for sale. I love a dressing of live sphagnum on a pot and I will continue to use it on collection specimens but I have noticed that when you do the plant will, in time, develop a large growth of fine roots within the live moss and many of these fine roots will be lost when removing the moss for packaging. If you do not use the moss these roots are easier to protect and preserve when unpottting. Its not as pretty and you have to deal with more weeds but I hate losing delicate roots on plants going out the door.

[kain]

Leilani,
Do you have N. lavicola and, if so, do you find it does better in a mix with a high proportion of volcanic cinder? Essentially, my question is: do you think N. lavicola is found on volcanic substrates in the wild because it "prefers" (oh, you're gonna kill me on that "prefers"! ) the trace elements found in such substrates or is it that N. lavicola is simply capable of surviving on volcanic substrates? My example would be the salt marsh grasses in the eastern U.S. - Spartina spp. - which grow just fine if you plant them in your garden, but are out-competed in low(or no) salinity natural environments by other species of grass. In other words, the Spartina doesn't "prefer" the high soil salinity in a salt marsh, it can simply survive in it where other grasses cannot.

[rainforest]

Kain,
I have never seen a plant that just because it grows in a specific media will grow "better" if grown in a media that it naturally grows on/in. I have noticed though for more epiphytic species (case in point, N. veitchii) that a mix that dries out rapidly is better then a media that will remain wetter. N northiana grows on limestone, but that media doesn't make them grow "better" in captivity more so than N. rajah growing in an ultramafic soil type.
Ultimately the media and how you utilize it is more significant than what it actually grows in.

I am interested how Sam can grow plants (well) in coco chips that for me and many others have found that the media breaks down too rapidly and causes severe root damage that will decline a plant into death-mode over time.
The addition of other drainable components would designate the media as being rapidly draining, but in no way suggest that his media doesn't break down to a point where you would expect a decline in growth.
Interesting!

M

[jgriffin]

Hi,
Michael, glad you brought this up here, and in another thread.
As you pointed out elsewhere, EP loves coco chips(mixed with very course perlite). You have probably noticed, as I have, that many of our Asian counterparts favor this component. It seems to be for the ease and low expense mostly(same for BE).
Obviously something is not the same with the chips you used and Sam's to get such drastic differences.
What did you mix with them?
I think you use a drip system to water, IIRC? Do you and Sam use the same quality of water?
Also, do both of you use the same fertilizer?
Any idea what locale the coco-chips you used came from?
I have read by several that Sri Lankan has less salt to wash out than some.
Just some thoughts-tell me what you think.

Cheers,

Joe

[leilani]

kain ....
I would agree with Michael in that I believe we can do better than a plants natural soil conditions. I think it is a mistake to equate "natural" and "ideal" conditions in this regard.

I do grow N. lavacola and I do use cinder in the mix but it is not as if I have done growth comparisons with differing media so I can't really tell you one way or the other. I can tell you that I have no problem growing N. lavacola to adulthood in my standard mix.

(BTW .... the only N. lavacola I have is from BE. I don't know if it is from TC or not but it does have a bizarre reproductive abnormality ...... lhnn.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=fo&action=display&thread=2495)

Michael and Joe ....
I have puzzled over this myself and think that maybe, as Joe mentions, that it might have something to do with the drip watering system. With a drip water system certain areas of the pot will remain consistently wetter than others and deteriorate more rapidly (?). Also, my fertilization regiment has probably been less regular and less rigorous than Michaels.

[rainforest]

While I am known to fertilize the BeJesus out of my plants, let me make one clarification. After the plants reach maturity, I ease down on fertilizing because ferts send mature plants into flower-madness.
Not all of my collection is under drip (I wish they all were), and I have mixed them with everything from cinders to perlite and bark, and even river sand. For me they just turn into a substrate equivalent to rice pudding, a solid wet mass of undetectable gel.

My climate is very dry. Our water supply is alkaline (hard water due to the presence of coral in our water reserve) and shows lots of white powder after drying out. I would imagine that this would be a good mix to keep the neutrality of the media.

I believe there is only one distributor of coco bark/peat in the state.

I have recently tried using it again with more looser filler (perlite, black cinders, black sand, river sand, etc.) but I can already see the media breaking down and come together forming a bread-pudding blend.

My main media which is always friable and loose even after advanced breakdown is a mixture of perlite and bark mulch (from Lowes, which is a brittle black organic pine compost that can crumble away fine roots from media and with good water retention as well as drainage. The most important step is to be sure the media is well wetted before using. As this media has a hard time to wet. I make a hole in the bag and place the water hose into it and allow it to fill like a water balloon. It's amazing how much water this media absorbs. Once wet, I then mix it woth medium, fine perlite for seedlings and medium to large coarseness for larger plants. I use this as a base and it is not mixed with other cinders, charcoal, bark, etc. until it is used for plating. I love seeing a well developed black mass of roots around a pot or hanging basket when I transplant with this stuff. If I wanted to, I just shake the root mass and all the soil comes off cleanly and easily. And the media is still friable to be reused over and over again. This old media is great for filling to pots that have lost its soil line from soil compaction.

M

[jgriffin]

Michael,
I have some pine bark mulch from Lowe's (A friend used it in the past) and I was surprised at how "soil like" it was. It almost seems to be peat like with shingles of bark and a trace of sand.
Is that the same stuff you are talking about?
Just for fun, I mixed all sorts of woody stuff together, including that stuff, cypress, cedar mulch, orchid bark, coco-chips, charcoal, lava pebbles, perlite and a bit of lfs.
With one gallon pots, the water drains out the bottom within seconds, but the plants can go over a week w/o watering.
I know it's a lot of stuff that can be cut out, but I was wondering if different woods contribute different things. I think the varying shapes of these chunks make a nice course mix.
Cheers,

Joe

[kain]

Two things:
1. Does anyone know if there is a reason certain Nepenthes grow on certain substrates in the natural environment (i.e. rajah, mantalingajanensis, etc. on ultramafic, northiana on limestone, etc.) but not on other substrates (most limestone growers are not found on sandstone even though the environment is otherwise similar, etc.)
2. I use a cypress bark mulch/perlite mix which (like Michael says) holds water very well once wet, but I have had trouble with it compacting too much and going anaerobic at the bottom when I add vermiculite (which I do for my ultramafic Neps, since vermiculite has a lot of iron and magnesium), so I have been sticking clay hydroponic balls in the bottom inch of the pots to allow better drainage. What do you pros think?

[rsivertsen]

Jan 13, 2010 4:30:01 GMT -10 kain said:

Two things:
1. Does anyone know if there is a reason certain Nepenthes grow on certain substrates in the natural environment (i.e. rajah, mantalingajanensis, etc. on ultramafic, northiana on limestone, etc.) but not on other substrates (most limestone growers are not found on sandstone even though the environment is otherwise similar, etc.)
2. I use a cypress bark mulch/perlite mix which (like Michael says) holds water very well once wet, but I have had trouble with it compacting too much and going anaerobic at the bottom when I add vermiculite (which I do for my ultramafic Neps, since vermiculite has a lot of iron and magnesium), so I have been sticking clay hydroponic balls in the bottom inch of the pots to allow better drainage. What do you pros think?

Fact is that nobody really knows exactly why ultramafic outcrops produce such a large number of endemic species of plants (CPs, ferns and orchids). Serpentine outcrops are actually mildly toxic to plants as well, which could turn out to be a competition thing, as most CPs are poor competitors. Limestone outcrops also produce a number of endemics, but are not toxic. These are reasons why a lot of botanists and geologists cross paths frequently. I wish I knew the answer, but the plants aren't talking.

As for the waterlogged compost going anaerobic at the bottom of the pots, I use a layer of perlite at the bottom of pots or some chunks of orchid bark to keep the bottom layer from collapsing and rotting. Anything similar would also work. - Rich

[rainforest]

I believe ultramafic soils are high in chromium, magnesium some alkali minerals, etc. While not heavily toxic, they can moderate how a plant (fern, orchid, nepenthes, etc.) grows on it. Plants that grow in high magnesium soils tend to be mineral hungry and while they are able to grow in non-mineral base soils, having the added nutrients allows them to grow or perhaps be more resilient to diseases or flower better, etc.
These minerals may also cut down on competition and perhaps keep soil born pests to a minimum. I believe they are similar to our (Hawaiian) volcanic origin rocks up in the volcano region. Therefore similar kinds of plants are adapted and grow well in these environments.

M

[mikuláš]

As for the waterlogged compost going anaerobic at the bottom of the pots, I use a layer of perlite at the bottom of pots or some chunks of orchid bark to keep the bottom layer from collapsing and rotting. Anything similar would also work

Since this discussion involves several questions about media composition, I'll include the following link on water in container soils from GardenWeb:

forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0918361520140.html?38

The author obviously isn't writing about Nepenthes, but I think the physics behind soil composition & its effects on drainage remain true no matter what you grow in that soil The main point (for those not inclined to read the whole post) is that if the particles in the drainage layer are > 2x the (average) particle size in the mix, the drainage layer actually backfires -- it doesn't promote drainage, but instead the perched water table just moves higher in the pot. So you still have a water-logged layer, it's just not at the bottom anymore.

This guy seems to know his stuff when it comes to soil, so I thought I might share this particular post....could be useful or not, but worth a read.

[mikuláš]

The main point...is that...

Ugh, I hate when I do that: Actually, that's not the main point of the link. Rather, that's the main point I wanted to share. The linked article actually discusses a lot of other useful stuff, too.

[kain]

mikuláš: that was a really good article, thanks for recommending it. I'd suggest it to anyone else curious about water retention in plant pots.
rainforest: the dictionary defines ultramafic as being high in magnesium and iron (and probably everything else you mention), which is why I put vermiculite in my mix for my ultramafics - it is very high in both magnesium and iron. I would think the mineral hungry plants would benefit from more minerals in their potting mix. What do you think, and have you tried growing ultramaficophiles (if that's a word) in media with and without minerals and what were the results if you have?

[rsivertsen]

Ultramafic soils, (such as serpentine) are actually slightly toxic to many plants, and this may be more of a competition thing than a requirement, since most CPs are very poor competitors, and generally are considered as pioneer plants, may have just adapted a better tolerance for these things than actually needing them for these minerals. - Rich

[kain]

Ah, thank you, Rich!
This goes back to my first question on this thread with regards to N. lavicola.. Do you (or anyone) know if anyone has done any experimentation on growth rates in different soil media?