How this hobby can be more productive/growers' end

[rainforest]

If you're in the business of producing, selling, mass marketing rare species. It would be very beneficial to produce SEED original material that is never tc'd for sale. Using superior species parents to make superior species offspring would be the way to go.
I don't buy the fact that only three clones of a newly discovered species such as N. hamata has germinated and tc'd for sale. To me, I believe that hundreds were germinated but at that time the idea was so long as there were a few tc clones available (monopoly) there would not need to be that many needed for perpetuation.
The same holds true for other rare species such as N. rajah, N. macrophylla, N. lowii, N. villosa, etc. Why is there just a few when anyone who has grown nepenthes from seeds finds large population swarms of seed germination, especially wild collected seed from species to be very viable and nearly 100% germination rate. So how did we just end up with a few clipeatas, few rajahs, etc. My feeling is that these growers ONLY kept a few or the ONE and discarded the rest. Responsible growing? not!

Solution:
We need to get back on track on saving the species. The attempts many suppliers have done is nearly worthless. With so few breeding genetic individuals available it would be better to start over again. It would be ideal for hobbyists to make an effort in propagating and perpetuating nepenthes species in a more responsible manner than what has been done by our current institutions.
I am not saying we should all go out and rape the forest to collect seeds, etc. But approach it in a way that registers our applications for proper collection through forest/wildlife agencies for the perpetuation of the species. If these businesses have obtained seeds for them to make profits and gains from them, it should be easier to obtain seeds for perpetuation, distribution and dispersal without monetary rewards in doing so.
They failed us the first round. We should do it today and distribute effort worldwide.

M

[victoria]

I totally agree Michael! I feel completely frustrated with the "elite" growers that have done their best to keep these rare species as just a few TC clones (arent they usually male clones to or am I wrong in that?) available to the general public.....they have gone out of their way to convince almost everyone that TC is the way to go and that through TC they will ultimately get the best clones of these rare plants out to everyone at a lower cost.....I read on another forum a post of someone asking if it was better to get a TC hamata or pay extra for seed grown.....one answer I remember was something along the lines of saying why go for seed grown when it could be a hybrid, after all it is easy for Neps to get cross pollinated in an open situation, go for the TC instead so you know what you are paying for! (not exact words but hey, my memory is terrible so I am doing good to remember that much) You can clearly see where everyone has been brainwashed into thinking TC is the best and seed grown is a "risky investment".

As a Nep newby I was completely confused and rather clueless about TC and honestly didnt know how to find out if a Nep was from TC or not so I bought what was in my price range without giving it much thought....due to that half my collection consists of TC plants.....from my observations TC plants are quite weak and produce unstable results for me (take my Judith Finn for instance, I havent seen a pitcher from it in over a year, no growth at all, it just sat there and now all of a sudden in the last couple months it has spit out 3 flowers back to back).....some seem to thrive for a while and then get stunted for no reason then they will thrive again.....other small (under 4") TC Neps have sent out basals at an alarming rate......I have personally NEVER seen these results in ANY of my non TC seed grown Neps or my seedlings so that has led me to the conclusion that it is not my growing environment, techniques, etc but rather the TC plants themselves that are just to pumped full of hormones to be considered "healthy" and "vigorous" plants in my opinion.

My largest problem is getting a hold of non TC species (seed or plants).....take my N. lowii for example, I was told that it was a seed grown lowii.....only to get it and discover that it was indeed grown from seed but through TC......very frustrating to say the least!

It never ceases to amaze me however, at how quickly man will run out and dump a bunch of chemicals on something and claim it is "better that way".....once again, ignorance at its finest!

Well, I generally steer clear of posting under such topics due to the fact that i am simply not as well advanced in the research of such things, hence lack of knowledge, so I am only speaking of what i have learned in the few short years of growing these wonderful plants.....with that said, I am planning on doing my part to get seed grown Neps out to the puplic in an educational way but for now it will only be hybrids that I will be able to supply, hopefully as time passes I will be able to get in some seed grown species as well.....at least that is my long term goal anyways.

So, where do we start? You lit the fire Michael, its time for a Revolution!

Happy growing;
Victoria

[rainforest]

I believe that the source for seed originals will come from the private sector. Many have lost faith in larger growers because even after so many years their practices have remained the same and we ultimately suffer. They get fresh seed to make as many plants as they want, yet they make just three or just one. N. hamata is a good example. The first batch when it was produced yielded just three clones. The demand alone for this could have made every seedling a stock plant from which to make many micro-cuttings, so why just make three? Could it be the "M" word? M___________y. And what about the remainder of the seeds? Were they grown out and passed along to responsible growers to make raise them to maturity to make the next generation of seeds?
While we may have a few plants, and even plants from tc stock, our best bet is to obtain pollen from others who own the same species and produce seeds. After germination and establishing of true species seedlings, I would get rid of my tc plants and just keep the seed originals.

We will see a big explosion of nepenthes coming out of Asia since advanced technologies and communication through the internet has been more easily obtained. Just be in tuned with what's going on, announce pollen or receptive female notifications periodically and share the bounty!

Michael

[obregon562]

QUOTE technologies and communication through the internet has been more easily obtained. Just be in tuned with what's going on, announce pollen or receptive female notifications periodically and share the bounty! QUOTE

THIS is the future of nepenthes. Not the big time guys. WE, the hobbyists, will ultimately decide the fate of many nep species, rather it be directly by producing seed originals ourselves, or by doing nothing and letting the big companies keep producing a few clones that will ultimately ruin the genus' variability forever.

Fight the power! VIVA LA REVOLUTION DE NEPENTHES!