TC Retarded Clones

[Dave Evans]

Dear Michael and other Forum Members,

Please list the clones that have become retarded from being put through TC.

I had one male plant of N. campanulata from BE which would not grow flowers correctly. I now have another TC'ed male clone from Ed Read; I'll let you know if it is retarded when it flowers.

I have two clone of N. madagascariensis from BE which could also count as being retarded. But I don't know what happened for certain, because somehow I thought the plants were N. khasiana and I was growing them as highlanders for awhile, until they were large enought for me ID. I'm not sure if they arrived in their current state or if I caused it by way of poor cultivation.

I can put down N. chaniana and N. fallax from Wistuba. I think some of his TC protocols may have damaged a couple of his clones. What other plants or clones have you had trouble with?

On the other hand, I have plenty of TC'ed plants which grow completely normally. N. truncata, N. vieillardii, N. macrovulgaris, N. rafflesiana and others.

[rainforest]

Many of the tc protocols are different for different species. I have a close friend who is a tc wiz and she has told me that when they were tc papaya even within the same seedling, some sports become resistant to some growth regulators and must increase dosage, or use a different combination to get the same result. This doesn't mean that the plant also withstands genetic demorphism during this process. So I imagine that some of the clones grow well with little growth regulators and others need a heavier dose to get the same result. Those that don't need heavy dosages probably grow and develop more normally than those that are exposed to growth hormones and "steroids." I use this example like how body builders use steroids and growth hormones and we see deformities later in their life (analogous to how plants appear as they age).
I do have a short list of plants that I have seen reoccurring deformities show up, but hesitate to post a retard list until I see that these do not just correspond with my growing conditions. It would be OK to just post a few examples and have other growers show or express feelings about their plants. Since these are specific clones in a specific time frame. The same clone can appear healthy if you received them in their early stages. But being in vitro and not exposed to natural conditions, you can expect that this clone will be somewhat dependent on the hormones that have kept it alive. Like an HIV patient being dependent on AZT. Remove the AZT and the patient will begin showing symptoms of the disease. Well, perhaps a poor example, but I think you know what I mean. I have seen many tc clones of plants that do not do well unless they are shot up with fungicides and special conditions. For those who has the create special environments for their nepenthes to keep them from showing mutogenic symptoms, this may be a bad example for them. I have seen someone who had been growing N. bicalcarata dwarfed but steadily in a tank here, but when he tried to get it to grow outside under normal conditions, it would always abort its tendrils. This BE tc clone of a red bical had never been able to produce pitchers. I currently have this plant and have given this guy another bical from EP as a seed grown original and he lucked out in getting a bright orange red pitcher. Any way, the BE clone doesn't seem to produce pitchers. I had it growing side by side with even others from BE (that do produce pitchers) but found that this clone just do not. It is currently in an artificial chamber inside a plastic tent that has increased the inside humidity to near 100% all the time to see if this would help for it to make a pitcher. Newest growth with the same browned aborted tendril. So far no new developments. I will post a photo essay after I am done with this plant.

There are nepenthes clones out there that we see still being sold to this day. I wonder if any of those growers have grown out any of these clones to really see if they are OK. I bet even if they knew they had a lemon, they'd still sell it because of their expense in producing it and growing it to size. An investment they don't want bad press about. But now you need to ask yourself if they really truly evaluate each clone before making hundreds more.

M

[rainforest]

Dave said

On the other hand, I have plenty of TC'ed plants which grow completely normally. How do you explain that? Shouldn't they be having all sorts of issues? I mean they did come through TC, how can it be they grow just fine?

Some characteristics of mutation or deformity may not show up evidently as others do, but after being replicated over and over we start to see mutation. This mutation is not always evident as in BE's variegated N. rajah, others may have genetic flaws passed down by way of their seed/pollen producing parts.
I have pollinated BE's N. densiflora with other plants and have discovered a defect in every hybrid made with it. The plants of N. densiflora BE has a curious arch to their leaves that is not characteristic of this species, yet this effect is carried down to their hybrid seedling offspring.
AW's N. clipeata also has some growth issues. On larger more matured plants a deformity of the leaf is evident almost suggesting that they could be a hybrid or hybrid mixed origin. The petiolate tendril moves closer to the leaf tip as the plant matures. Has anyone seen this yet?
This flaw is not evident on every leaf but appears every second to fourth leaf.
AW's red truncata also has leaf developmental issues as the plant matures with a curled in tendril or leaf fold that is evident in almost every other leaf.
These issues would deem that the explant used in propagating these have begun genetic and mutational development and we will only see this increase as future populations of these tc clones are produced from the same original in vitro embryo cultured.
Many other tc labs never tc the same original clones for tc propagation year after year. New explant and mother block plants are used so as to not create a new genetic swarm of inferior or retarded materials.
One of the effects of overly produced tc materials as seen in orchid tc has been the plants poor ability to fight off diseases and insect predation. This is why so many orchid growers use great amounts of fungicide to make them grow. Without this, they would simply weaken away.
BE's N. rajah do have some fungus issues as I have known some growers say that some plants grow more vigorously when sprayed with a soil fungicide on a regular basis. I have also experienced AW's clipeata needing to have fungicides for proper growth and keeping of their roots. This is such a sad way to perpetuate a species with use of chemical means just to keep it alive.

M

[rainforest]

Add BE's N. bicalcarata red clone as having retarded flowers. Female producing flowers which abort after being pollinated. Have tried pollinating this with three different pollen parents (two of which were very fertile fathers and one bicalcarata from EP having been used in making their hybrids with the bical male).

I noticed some of the flowers as having a crested stigma surface.

M