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Post by dvg on Mar 28, 2010 12:54:04 GMT -10
Hi Marka, Yeah, I have brought that up before. Bob Hanrahan, who used to run "World Insectivorous Plants" mentioned it in a 1986 CPN issue. I asked him about it, and he said they started to do it more in the late 70s to promote growth. He said in those days, they could not give Nepenthes away(sold them for $1/foot). My guess is, that some growers who were rather vocal about the plants being carnivorous, were in the forefront when neps were gaining popularity. Or...somebody fertilized badly and killed some plants. I think RF prefers a organic seaweed fertilizer these days. Has anyone ever done a thread on what fertilizer they use and how they use it? Probably, but I admit I have to spend time with my teen and tween daughters, coaching volleyball, etc, and can't spend as much time on here as I would like. Thanks, Joe Hi Joe, I know this is a bit of a fringe type hobby, but it must have been off of the map in the '70s if Neps were being sold for a dollar per foot. That is quite the story there. And although some may have indeed fertilized their Neps in the past, it's still very common to read on the various CP forums today, other growers advising the newer growers to stay away from soil fertilizing their Neps. There are some of the more experienced growers that do use Maxsea fertilizer or other seaweed extract type fertilizers now, but those that do are not comprising the majority of Nepenthes growers out there...yet. It will be interesting to see how prominent of a role soil fertilizing takes on in the near future. dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 28, 2010 12:50:28 GMT -10
Thanks for the compliment viridis6animus.
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Post by dvg on Mar 28, 2010 5:37:22 GMT -10
Hello Doug, With Nepenthes, most of the species are very similar structure-wise, they are all lianas with long leaves. It is the details about stems, leaves and flowers which are the most important for understanding relationships within the genus. For example, all the members of the maxima-group have similar stems, similar leaves and are hairy; most of the flowers are doubles. The shared similarities indicate more recent speciation from a common ancestor when compared against the rest of the species in the genus. N. lowii and N. ephippiata seem too similar to have developed their common traits independently; and so the logical conclusion is they both share a more recent common ancestor and the rest of species in the genus doesn't share this ancestor. Thanks for the reply Dave. I've noticed your skill with identifying Nepenthes species just from online photos. Now I'm guessing that no doubt some of your ability has come from your experience with growing and seeing some of these plants live. And a part of it may have come from seeing the plants live in situ. And I've noticed that by growing a plant in my collection for a while, that before too long I can recognize it just by sight, without having to check with the plant label. Do you also rely on Nepenthes plant identification keys? And if so, which ones do you tend to rely on the most. I am looking at this from the point of view of the hobbyist/amateur enthusiast. I would like to gain some more expertise or knowledge anyway, in Nepenthes species identification and was wondering where to start in regards to using the Nepenthes plant key identifiers. I hope I was clear enough on this. The reason I am suggesting keys, is because I know that they are used by the mushroom fanciers of foraged edible mushrooms...because in that hobby, one has to be very careful with what they ingest. As the saying in that hobby goes, There are old mushroom hunters And there are bold mushroom hunters, But there are no OLD, bold mushroom hunters Now with Nepenthes identification, it isn't necessarily life critical that the identification always be correct, but I'd still like to learn more, and would appreciate any help with this. regards, Doug dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 27, 2010 8:49:18 GMT -10
Hi Dave,
I can see what you mean by the N. rajah and N. ephippiata leaves looking quite similar. Other than the obvious peltate leaves of the rajah, both leaves from the plants in my collection look very similar when being viewed, from above their respective rosettes...dark green oval shaped, similarly spaced leaves. I had thought previously that the leaves on ephippiata were much more similar to my rajah's leaves, than to any other Nep in my collection. I am not suggesting that rajah and ephippiata are closely related, but the superficial similarities in leaf appearance are interesting.
And the leaves on my N. lowii are lighter green in color and with much narrower spear- shaped leaves. But from pictures I've seen of the uppers from lowii and ephippiata, those two were more closely shaped than any other species that I know of.
But then I don't know what the roots of these two plants look like yet, until I do a repot. It turns out that the roots of some Neps are quite different from others as well. It could be that N. clipeata and N. pervillei have more tuberous roots than some others, due to the drying soil conditions they encounter. Or maybe I should say they selectively evolved their roots systems to live in these conditions.
Are the leaves of the plant, first and foremost the defining features of what determines Neps being 'related', short of DNA testing?
dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 26, 2010 15:42:55 GMT -10
It was snowing here pretty good earlier today and the ground was white with it. But then the sun came out this afternoon and melted most of the snow, so I decided to take a pic of the latest pitcher to open on my N. x 'Lady Pauline'. I placed a large calibre brown chicken egg(we were fresh out of green eggs ) beside it for size reference. With Easter right around the corner, I reckoned an egg would be appropriate for the occasion. All yolking aside, 'Lady Pauline', with it's talangensis * maxima parentage, is a very forgiving and beautiful plant...always willing to pitcher and doesn't complain too much at all. dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 25, 2010 5:47:56 GMT -10
Sam you could be right in that it could turn out that coffee isn't a perfect food for Nepenthes.
But I find this evolution of Nepenthes soil fertilizing to be quite interesting. And I think the coffee feeding is just another baby step in this evolution.
Not too long ago, it was considered blasphemy to even suggest that Nepenthes be soil fed. After all, they were carnivorous plants, were they not. They caught there own food in their pitchers, and to fertilize them would surely put the plant at risk, if not down right kill it.
Then growers such as Rainforest and others challenged this notion of not fertilizing Nepenthes. And you well know the consequences of challenging the status quo...the outrage, the ridicule, the initial dismissal of these new ideas, and the heated debates.
But if the new ideas are worthy and do indeed work, and if the 'heretics' are not first burned at the stake, but instead able to persist on to spread the new truth, then these new ideas can gain acceptance.
So then the popular thought became, "Okay, Neps can be fertilized, but one should really know what they are doing, so that is best left to the advanced grower".
But what I am seeing now with coffee, is that the novice grower, though skeptical at first is beginning to experiment with coffee. There seems to be a growing movement out there now, judging by what I have seen on some of the other forums.
These average growers might not be quite ready to try fertilizers on their Neps just yet, but that time is coming.
And I expect to see a commercial brand of Nepenthes fertilizer on the market in time, just as there are orchid and bromeliad specific fertilizers for those niche markets.
And I think coffee feeding is just one of the transitional steps in that direction.
dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 25, 2010 5:43:34 GMT -10
Sam, you entered your clipeata Clone 2 in the December 2008 Pitcher of the Month, and it was quite large then.
How are your Clone 2 and Clone U doing? Are they close to flowering for you yet?
It would be nice to know what sex these clones are as well.
dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 25, 2010 5:43:02 GMT -10
Xir, your plants are looking great there!
Nice pics too.
Just how hot is it getting there, for those plants to be looking so happy?
Thanks for sharing.
dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 25, 2010 5:42:30 GMT -10
All very nice pitchers there Sam, and I really like the wide striped peristome of the first one.
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Post by dvg on Mar 24, 2010 16:25:32 GMT -10
Here are some pics of N. clipeata Clone 2 from Wistuba. I received this plant along with the clipeata Clone 3 in August of 2008. These first four pics were taken on July 1, 2009. N. clipeata is also called the Shield-Leaved Pitcher Plant, from the Latin 'clipeus', meaning round shield, and no doubt, referring to the leaf shape. These next three pics were taken on February 28, 2010. Wistuba N. clipeata clone 3 Clone 2 pitcher Clone 3 pitcher Of the three clipeata clones that Wistuba offers (2,3 and U), only Clone 3 is known to have flowered and it is a male. Hopefully either Clone 2 or Clone U will turn out to be a female. dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 24, 2010 15:54:32 GMT -10
There has been a lot of interest with using coffee as a growth tonic for Nepenthes lately. I first heard of this idea for safely fertilizing Nepenthes in a thread started on PPOTT, by Dave Evans. At first I was a little tentative to pour day old cold coffee through my Nepenthes pots. But I decided to trust Dave's judgment on this one and proceeded to pour cold, black, leftover coffee through all of my potted up Nepenthes pots. And I have continued to do so every six months or so. And none of my plants have been harmed. In fact, once they receive a coffee feeding, they in turn respond with darker green, shinier glossy leaves, increased leaf size and larger pitchers...the coffee really seems to perk them up. I think the coffee treatments work in part, because coffee beans are composed of about 2% nitrogen, and the bean itself has quite a few micronutrients and trace elements to help the growing coffee plant along, once it germinates. If you are a little nervous to start, and I can understand that, you can begin with using diluted half strength coffee...just add water to the leftover coffee to make it as weak as you want. Here are a few links to some threads from other forums to read through, if any of you are interested in trying out a coffee treatment on your plants: www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dpevans/Nepenthes/N_rajah.htmpitcherplants.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6288ocps.proboards.com/index.cgi?...ad=2396&page=1www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119045 Most if not all of your coffee treatment concerns should be covered in one of the above threads. dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 24, 2010 7:56:47 GMT -10
Hi Mikulas, I use the misting setting, to mist I just screw in the nozzle head to tighten it, about 90% of the time. The misting setting, I find, doesn't move any of the soil too much at all. And depending upon how much the nozzle head is loosened, varying degrees of spray, between fine mist to jet spray, can be attained. These other spraying options don't move the soil around too much either, unless a lot of perlite is involved in the potting mix. The jet spray setting, can definitely move loose soil around, but I have lfs as a topping dressing on most of my pots, so the lfs acts as an effective buffer against soil movement. I usually only use the jet setting when I'm trying to get more water into something quickly. Doug dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 24, 2010 7:48:57 GMT -10
thanx for the advice hav you ever ordered from wistuba? I am nervous to send money outside the country and I dont know about getting plants through customs. Is it tough? I've ordered from Wistuba about a half dozen times. I'm in Canada so I needed an import permit, but it was only $35.00 and good for three years. You're in the states so it is even easier. Wistuba has a broker on the east coast, and the broker gets the plants through customs for you. You will have to check and see if you need an import permit, though. But Wistuba provides the CITES and Phytosanitary documents. As for payment, I use and he prefers that customers use PayPal. I've used PayPal and it has worked well so far. Once Wistuba ships, the plants are usually here in about a week, give or take a few days. So no, the process isn't too difficult. But you have to be patient when ordering from him. He tends to ship all of his orders at once, so you might have to wait for a month or two once you place the order, but it will come to you eventually. dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 24, 2010 2:58:31 GMT -10
Hi Jamban guy, So you're looking for a hamata and a macrophylla...nice choices there. Your best bet for the hamata is to get in touch with major CP vendors in the states that bring in plants from Borneo Exotics. Check in with them to find out when their next shipment is due in. And if possible you can get on a snipe or waiting list with them. For the N. macrophylla, you might want to consider placing an order with Wistuba, it would probably be cheaper in the long run. But if you decide to look for it in the states, it will be in demand and expensive. Now that said, N. macs are starting to be more available from some vendors in the states. For instance Cobra Plants aka Sarracenia Northwest was selling N. macrophylla and had some in stock as late as January 20 of this year. They were selling 2 inch diameter starter macs, for the sale price of $149.00 US. These were reduced down from the previous price of $225.00 US. And they only had five of these plants left at that time. Sarracenia Northwest no doubt sold out of the N. macs, but they are a distributor for Leilani Nepenthes and have some of Sam's lovely plants still in stock, some at a reduced price as well. Another option is to join in on a group order with your local CP society, if that is possible. Some CP societies will do an order or two per year to one of the major international CP or Nepenthes nurseries. Good luck with your search and happy hunting. dvg
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Post by dvg on Mar 23, 2010 16:24:47 GMT -10
Thanks Mikulas.
You're welcome Kain.
My CP's watering needs kept increasing over time to the point that I now use a pump up Gilmour Model 201PL Spray Doc.
It holds about a gallon and a half of water, and has long wand on a flexible hose.
The nozzle adjusts from a fine mist to a strong jet spray of water.
I find I can get it into tight spots quite easily and because I am consistently going through a couple of gallons of water a day, I am not always having to refill a watering can.
For getting your plants to pitcher, try raising the humidity by either having a top layer of moist sphagnum moss atop your potting medium in the pot, or actual live sphagnum on the top of yor growing pots.
Also frequent misting of the tendril tips, if you can manage it, also seems to help.
My plants also receive very high humidity at night to offset the drier conditions they have during the day.
And, if your lighting is good, I have been having success with coffee treatments, once every six months or so.
Some growers like to use urea free fertilizers, but so far I've been having success with the coffee.
dvg
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