bobh
Insignes
Posts: 52
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Post by bobh on Sept 7, 2008 9:33:25 GMT -10
I see that the ventricosa x TM sold for $340 which is an amazing price seeing that it is about ten times what Exotica sells it for. I just gave away 2 cuttings of ventricosa x TM as free bonus plants to a couple of people who bought other plants from me. You can bet I won't be doing that again!
By the way, I think this Nepenthes gossip column is a great topic.
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Post by nepsaroundthehouse on Sept 10, 2008 14:57:51 GMT -10
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Post by nepsaroundthehouse on Sept 19, 2008 18:15:04 GMT -10
Well I was close. It went for $610.00.
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obregon562
Nobiles
"I do believe Im feeling stronger everyday."
Posts: 387
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Post by obregon562 on Oct 12, 2008 11:52:04 GMT -10
BEs site says oh-so-quietly they have bred its black truncata and is making whatever cross/species available at the end of 2009!
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jimmy
Urceolatae
Posts: 39
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Post by jimmy on Oct 12, 2008 12:46:19 GMT -10
That would be amazing! That black truncata is spectacular!
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obregon562
Nobiles
"I do believe Im feeling stronger everyday."
Posts: 387
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Post by obregon562 on Oct 12, 2008 17:56:07 GMT -10
i sure hope its the pure species! bottom right corner on the home page in case you want to read for yourself...
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Robiii
Nobiles
Grow the new world
Posts: 262
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Post by Robiii on Oct 12, 2008 19:47:14 GMT -10
Well I've got to start saving now for several of those...
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Post by sdcarnivores on Oct 13, 2008 17:02:49 GMT -10
I'd be very weary of buying any black truncatas they first put out :/ . BE has a not so good record with the integrity of their young seed produced material. "Red" highland truncatas, hamatas, and sibu x hamatas come to mind. Still, I might just take a chance and buy a "black" truncata as soon as they release them.
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obregon562
Nobiles
"I do believe Im feeling stronger everyday."
Posts: 387
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Post by obregon562 on Oct 13, 2008 17:46:05 GMT -10
SDcarnivores is right...
but im a lemming, ill jump off the cliff first chance i get for a black truncata!
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Robiii
Nobiles
Grow the new world
Posts: 262
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Post by Robiii on Oct 31, 2008 11:23:38 GMT -10
Can't say I disagree there hopefully BE is getting a bit cleaner with these sorts of things because black truncatas are high on my list of things I want to grow. Color, size, and purely unparalleled are things I search for within the genus, besides the straight up eye catchers.
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Post by rainforest on Nov 12, 2008 10:28:38 GMT -10
I seriously doubt that they will sell a black truncata because you'll need a black truncata x another black truncata to be pure. Their philosophy regarding the mixed species or diluted species will worry everyone to ponder whether their plant was derived from pure species stock. It appears to be a more liberal methodology as to what a species is and if according to what I've read, as long as a species has characteristics of that species and if it is diluted, then it will be named as such a species. It's fishy that an outfit that is to preserve nepenthes species can acknowledge that a species is not always pure and have dilutions of other species crossed with it in the past. You may be getting more species in a cross than meets the eye.
M
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Post by rsivertsen on Nov 12, 2008 14:38:38 GMT -10
I seriously doubt that they will sell a black truncata because you'll need a black truncata x another black truncata to be pure. That may not necessarily be true! These traits may be very recessive, or may just be sports that occur with some degree of frequency that may involve a combination of several gene sets to be in place; It will increase the probability of getting these traits when the "Black N. truncata" are crossed with each other, but we may wind up with a batch of ordinary looking N. truncata, with just a small percentage, (if any) of the progeny manifest these traits. The F2 progeny may turn out to have a higher frequency of occurrence of this "Black form; funny how genetics works sometimes! - Rich
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Dave Evans
Nobiles
dpevans_at_rci.rutgers.edu
Posts: 490
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Post by Dave Evans on Nov 12, 2008 16:04:20 GMT -10
I seriously doubt that they will sell a black truncata because you'll need a black truncata x another black truncata to be pure. Their philosophy regarding the mixed species or diluted species will worry everyone to ponder whether their plant was derived from pure species stock. Err no. The black truncata doesn't appear to be pure N. truncata in the first place, or maybe part of destroyed population that was a little different from what we know as the 'typical' N. truncata. Is this supposed to be a complaint? What is "fishy" about it?
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Post by rainforest on Nov 13, 2008 15:01:13 GMT -10
From what I have seen regarding the black truncata, their morphology between plants are dynamic. A hybrid swarm of that caliber isn't possible. Their integrity between small "seedlings" and large clones are all of the same stock. Those who received "chance seedlings" got actual collected plants. It is interesting that the only individuals who received these "chance" black truncatas were among those who own stock in Borneo Exotics. This is not to mention that the conformities between "collected" seed as we were told doesn't hold the same gene pool from these so called Highland/Pasian forms as said to be all from the same location/stock material. The black truncatas are a distinct race of truncatas that perhaps had a specific locale not mentioned due to over poaching of especially what was not destroyed or over collected. The small plants of those mentioned to be obtained from "chance" among the Pasian form seedlings are a distinct race. Their peristome and even folaige structures are greatly different. Anyone even with elementary knowledge of biology will say that the black truncatas are entirely unrelated to the highland/Pasian form and definitely do not occur from the same location. These are not hybrid or mutation in stock but a true population of specific clones as are the distinct forms of N. lowii from Trusmadi versus those of Kinabalu. Both the same species, yet the distinction creates categories all specific to each. Like the black truncatas, there is nothing to do with it being a hybrid or mutogenic race. Just a variational form due to growing pressures. To believe that these few who received "baby" black truncatas got these by chance is as far fetched as someone telling me that these were given to BE by Aliens from outer space. Which is more believable? The large plants in their greenhouses are no doubt actual collected plants from the Philippines. Does everyone here need a brain transplant? How does one get these huge flowering truncatas unless they were actually collected from wild plants. Do you know how long it takes for a truncata to flower, no doubt how even longer if they grew it from seeds themselves? They aren't the best cultivators on the planet to make plants from seed grow fast. Are they trying to pull a sheepskin cover over your eyes and say that they have gotten the black truncata to grow from collected seeds to matured flowering plants that have outgrown other plants that they have had in captivity to include N. lowii, N. rajah, N. merrilliana, N. veitchii, to name a few. Talk about rose colored glasses. How about solid black glasses where the sun don't shine? But I bet everyone here still believes that the blacks all came by chance seedling selection, yet we still haven't seen a super huge Pasian truncata (from the same seed lot as these) or even come across one that even flowered. No Pasian truncata with any characteristics that even elude that these were derived from the same source. BE's highland/Pasian truncatas are the ugliest colored forms of truncatas that I have ever seen. Those greenhouse forms from ep even within their narrow breeding parameters between few original clones out-yields these so called highland forms ten to one. If we can learn from what ep has done within a few generations we can expect that these Pasian forms to be a dynamic case of selective intervention. There isn't any noteworthy clones of these H/L forms or even ones that I would consider to be worth using for breeding. They are all slower growing, yield average/below average colors (nothing even close to the black truncatas) and do not have that characteristic wide flaring peristomes seen in the blacks. The black truncatas are but a special form or new species and to sell them off as a variety or seedling hybrid/mutation is retarded! Buying a Pasian form from random seeds would never ever produce a seedling of a black, never , ever! That was a misleading outright lie! I am one of those who have purchased hundreds of seedlings all believing that I may end up with a chance black. Of course those who have a black was assigned one not from a random or even preselected among many seedlings but handed out to specific individuals who purchased few to no Pasian forms to get their "chance" black truncata. This is an example of what to expect in the future when it comes down to you purchasing and owning a black truncata. of course they will be pricey, but how much crap will you need to put out first before you can really own this new species? That is the question to ask yourself. Believe what you want to believe. But if you think that buying a Pasian truncata will get you any closer to obtaining a black truncata, you're probably abby-something. Abby-normal!
M
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Dave Evans
Nobiles
dpevans_at_rci.rutgers.edu
Posts: 490
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Post by Dave Evans on Nov 13, 2008 17:57:30 GMT -10
Micheal,
I don't understand how you arrive at some of your conclusions. I never saw the highland truncata being sold as black truncata... I never expected to find a black truncata in with a batch of highland plants, why did you?
We don't know anything about the origin of this black truncata plant, so where are you getting all your ideas about it from? You've never seen one in person just like me, but somehow you know its a species and it not could not be a hybrid or mutation... Huh?
Whoever did say the big plants were not from cuttings removed from the wild? You seem to throw out a bunch of facts and then make all sorts mis-conclusions about them... Mutations and hybrids can result in new species, what is "retarded" about it?
Actually, N. truncata pitchers don't really look nice to me until they get very large. This includes all the various forms I've seen. What is so ugly about the "highland" plants that is not shared with the nearly identically shaped lowland clones?
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