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Post by rainforest on Nov 15, 2008 8:35:52 GMT -10
Joel, That is very wishful thinking. I have never heard of any grower destroying anything in vitro because it performed poorly or showed mutagenic characteristics. We as hobbyists who pay money for them do see it and we discuss it amongst ourselves, but overall, the growers would never throw out cultures due to poor qualities. It costs too much to get it to where they're at. Investments are not meant to be discarded even if you knew it was crap. The advances from fertilizing, growing medias and cultural practices have shown that we can grow the plants. Growers can no longer say it died because of your soil, or never pitchered because of not enough humidity, or you fed it too much and so on. So many years we were led to believe that it was our fault for the mishaps. Today we know better and we want better to begin with. With better quality and better clones we can now achieve what others do. Many balcony hobbyists, small land and greenhouse to basement and garage growing has seen the day that they are capable of growing any ordinary subtropical plant if they are grown the exact same way you would treat any other plants be it an orchid or a bromeliad. The naysayers who remarked that these are specialized plants requiring pampering care is out of whack and need to be tuned up like an old automobile. The growers of today are serious minded, ahead of even some growers and know what they want. Their money is not so freely parted with and they want quality for their bucks. No more small microchip sized plants and weak and slow to establish either. With all of the tc plants that have been around since this whole hobby began wouldn't you see more matured stuff or even F1 generations of species seeds made by now? I guess I'm just a wishful dreamer. Like DE said, I must be a bit warped!~
M
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Post by nepsaroundthehouse on Nov 27, 2008 3:31:33 GMT -10
I've noticed that there's lots of Viking and ampullaria crosses on Ebay originating overseas and mainly out of Thailand. Anyone can buy these plants. I was wondering has anyone in the US purchased any and got them delivered to their door without customs or some other agency snagging them. I believe you need permits to bring any of that stuff in. Any thoughts on this?
J
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Post by nepsaroundthehouse on Jan 17, 2009 5:34:01 GMT -10
Hey All, Glenn in Southern CA. has a new website offering carnivorous plants for sale. His Nepenthes are mainly from Leilani for now with possible imports from BE and EP in the future. He's just starting out and should be expanding his inventory if all goes well. Always enjoy giving a "plug" to anyone who starts selling Nepenthes to the community. It's called A and C Tropicals and here's the link. www.aandctropicals.webs.comGood luck Glenn Joel
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Post by nepsaroundthehouse on Jan 17, 2009 5:38:11 GMT -10
Exotica Plants updated their list with a few rarer cuttings. Things that stuck out were N. faizaliana, N. northiana x veitchii N. burbidgeae x edwardsiana N Mixta x maxima) x veitchii)] x (northiana x veitchii) very hi-end cross at 350.00 so it must not be offered that often.
There were others also. I guess Tony and Michael's emails ought to increase now with lots of requests.
Joel
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obregon562
Nobiles
"I do believe Im feeling stronger everyday."
Posts: 387
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Post by obregon562 on Jan 17, 2009 12:45:36 GMT -10
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Post by tonyp on Jan 17, 2009 13:15:02 GMT -10
You need permits from the purchaser and the supplier to legally import the plants yes. Importing them without the proper documentation can lead to fines in the thousands of dollars if caught.
Seeds are not quite as restricted but there are still required permits.
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Post by rainforest on Jan 18, 2009 8:31:44 GMT -10
Nowadays, most permit applicants get asked questions like is this a one time deal or are you planning to import several times in that period. I believe getting a General Permit (the permit that is required to import CITES materials) is preferenced to regular importers or persons who plan on doing it more frequently. Some states also require a separate permit so they can see what activities you are doing as well. You have the right to import these CITES plants (with proper permits and documentation) and it is the duty of these different agencies to allow and help you through these steps. On the other side of this is the costs involved with importing. Phyto, shipping, handling, rip off courier services, duty,customs declaration. I usually hire a broker who actually helps me expedite the process. I am spoiled having my plants arrive the same day I get to pick them up. But I pay extra for my custom's broker to do all the paperwork, plus they have their ins and outs to get it done with speeds I have not been able to do. It's not impossible, but do know that there are many hidden costs that are not visible at first.
M
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Post by tonyp on Jan 18, 2009 9:24:37 GMT -10
I am guessing based on the ever increasing number of plants from overseas showing up on Ebay, and the frequent bids on the auctions, that alot of hobbyists in the US are purchasing without the proper documentation on their end as well as on sellers.
To properly import Nepenthes plants from overseas. The Seller must supply both a phytosanitary certificate and a CITES document. The buyer must supply an Import permit (the free one) and usually a General permit (the $70 one). They have changed the wording on the General permit but as far as I know it is still technically only for commercial importation. But try explaining that to USDA if your shipment arrives without one!! They look for both and expect to see both! There is potentially customs duty on importations as well, depending on the country of origin and the value.
The buyer must supply the shipper with the green/yellow import sticker, which comes with the import permit, for placing on the outside of the package. This tells the shipping company the package must be sent to USDA for inspection.
So is it worth breaking a whole host of laws and potentially bring in foreign pests and diseases, and/or get slapped with a several thousand dollar fine for smuggling, by trying to saving a few bucks buying a plant off ebay from overseas?
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Post by jgriffin on Jan 18, 2009 13:04:59 GMT -10
Yes, you need both as Tony has said. I had only the free one initially and the USDA called me and said I needed the general , but they would send my plants thru if I promised to get it for next time(this was five or so years ago). I have had arguements with people in the past about this, but like Tony said, when they tell you you need it, that is an arguement you may not win. I think they state more clearly that the general is for CITES and the regular permit is simply for importation(you send the exporter your yellow/green sticker from this, as well as copies of both permits).
Cheers,
Joe
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Post by unclemasa on Jan 18, 2009 16:16:46 GMT -10
With all the plants that I have been able to accumulate I have only once acted as the import agent. It was s a pain. Nothing that can't be dealt with if you have enough time and money but not a quick and clean process. You must jump through a number of hoops and the first time around the track can be confusing. I have always been quite content to pay dealers markups in order to receive the gratification of a well hardened and acclimated plant rather than to try to save a few bucks by taking on many extra hours of work. It's not often quick or easy and it is never without risks.
Group orders never really appealed to me either. I can see a couple of people combining in a order but when you get many more its like a business with a dozen partners. With a couple of people you get what you want, split the work, expenses and extras if any. Beyond that ..... forget it.
As for EBay ...... I think most of the plant sales from outside of the US are likely illegal as I doubt that many of the buyers actually get import permits for one or two plants ( .... its just not worth the effort). The truth is that you can get away with sending a lot of stuff through the mail if you are willing to accept the risk of real consequences should you get caught. Its called "smuggling" and you can dance around it all you want until the music stops and you are the one without a chair.
A purchase off of Ebay is not quite the same as smuggling guns or drugs. It seems more like a bureaucratic transgression rather than a moral issue and there are lots of fine arguments and rationalizations around such activities but the law has a way of quickly and painfully clarifying those issues for you.
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bobh
Insignes
Posts: 52
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Post by bobh on Jan 31, 2009 8:02:20 GMT -10
I see that EP is auctioning a large x trusmadiensis on their web site. I suspect it will be more than my budget, but I would be curious about how high the bids go.
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Post by rainforest on Jan 31, 2009 13:23:44 GMT -10
I believe Peter D'Amato purchased a cutting of this earlier for ____? Does anyone recall? Joel? How is it doing? The last photo I saw had it growing among ferns and weeds in an unkept condition at his nursery.
This is a male and has fathered many of the Trusmadiensis hybrids today. So it os also proven as a breeder and fertile pollen.
M
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Post by rainforest on Jan 31, 2009 13:35:56 GMT -10
EP has other prize offerings much greater than a rare rc of a species. many of their original hybrids are worth more since you will probably never be able to have them again unless they remake them or purchase one as an offering of a rooted plant. Some of their earlier crosses are also noteworthy (i.e. northiana x veitchii, primary crosses with hurrelliana, and any of their original work with first generation species).
Newer croses they have recently made also captures my eyes. N. veitchii x eymae is worthy of owning. I believe the veitchii mother will make slightly slower growing seedlings but with very hefty pitchered plants like their original N. eymae x veitchii. A different eymae is used here adding more spice to their eymae looking offspring.
I would like to see more N. lowii crosses made. I am sure they have more along the way since these are slower growing than other hybrids. Their N. lowii x campanulata will be famous! I hope future crosses with lowii include N. eymae, N. mirabilis v. echinostoma, N. ampullaria, and sibuyanensis. Just because one expects it, a N. lowii x bicalcarata for something out of this world also come to mind. If there is one, a lowii x northiana would break my bubble!
M
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Post by vraev on Feb 5, 2009 7:43:53 GMT -10
I actually wonder if Geoff has an Edwardsiana and a villosa near flowering size in his collection. Just the thought for an N. x harryana is just mindblowing and can result in a number of sparks among our community in demand for that hybrid.
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Post by nepsaroundthehouse on Feb 9, 2009 3:32:15 GMT -10
Well you'd think with how long N. villosa, N. lowii, N. rajah, and N. macrophylla have been in tc and around for some time, you'd see a lot more adult size plants but you don't. Don't know why. I know some of those highlanders can be slow growers but many of those have been available for many years but few seem to have made it to larger size. That's just my observation and it may be a bit off.
J
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